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Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-10-2010
Well, Fool , you said words were empty. And its actually absurd to imbue essence into words, I agree! And equally absurd to take on identities as real and permanent, agree with that too. Its only folly. That's why its a worthy endeavor to talk about that which is not folly. It opens up the potential of that option.
And again, for me its not strict. Really the crux is how we perceive. If you perceive strict or if you perceive serious, that's what you perceive (but not what I or someone else necessarily will). And, regardless of what emotion is perceived, its not going to last anyway. Things are not fixed and permanent. Which is again due to emptiness.
So we can illusion being behind or in front of the finger, or we can see that all positions taken are empty. Then we laugh because nothing matters. By contrast, being behind the finger and laughing is a laugh of advantage (haha gotcha), and being in front of the finger and laughing is a laugh of surrender (oh I'm out of favor...I'll laugh it off). These link to the chain of cause and effect. So "identity" moves to the next point and next point. Laughing from emptiness laughs because neither position is viable as a 'real' option, and its actually quite funny. Not funny due to any social implications, but funny because it has nothing to do with any social implications. (No way to get back to Ixtlan).
And if you want to laugh in the social implications, fine, I've done my share of that too. But obviously I felt this topic here was important enough to not do that (give in to consensus). And its not that I don't have a clever come back, believe me I have loads of them (especially in the Bill Murray genre). But that's just it, its a hamster on a treadmill...it just keeps going and going until the parities involved get exhausted or satisfied which ever occurs first. Been there, done that, know all about that. Being that this is a Shamanic and Zen site, seems appropriate to discuss emptiness here. I like what Blue Totem started, it was intriguing. Its just that he had yet to elaborate on it. So it could be seen what he was referring to and if it vibed with our own experiences. You and Fool #2 (pardon the pun...oh I think that's a gotcha...oops) jumped a bit quick on the idea that emptiness is not fullness. Maybe theoretically that sounds absurd, but experientially not necessarily. I was wanting to hear how he would answer Lex's question, but he in fact chose not to answer, so that's still a big question mark...what he meant by fullness. I'm not sure it should just be dismissed though, called ****. That was a bit self-righteous on your part ya think?...sorry, there I go with the gotchas again. Don't accept that label under no circumstances. I only propelled it as a counter to your own suggestion propelled previously (remember cause and effect). To show we are all Spartacus (crucify the Bastard!)...but again don't accept that label either. You are not Spartacus. Nor am I. Nor was he nor was the actor who played him. Ohhhh, but if you want to get into social matters, yes we are all him. Absolutely. We have all sinned. Cannot cast any stones in innocence (virtue). But will try. If labels mean so much. That's why emptiness is much less strict than this! It does not demand a toll. Contrarily it offers no (social) reward either, except freedom from toll.
Will you call this woman's wisdom, ****, or otherwise? Regardless, I will not accept labels as absolutes, and I gather neither would you (and power to you for that!). That's why it's less strict to just focus on experiences. But, sigh, I understand the world (of intending) is as it should be, regardless, and may just keep that illusory social structure in operation. Folly folly folly, life is but a dream.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-10-2010
Ok, I've decided to put myself on a strict Zen diet (to remain fit for my competitor and yet maintain my sense of virtue at the same time) of one gotcha a week, hehe, (aside in a whisper) we'll see how long she last with THAT.
So here's my gotcha...ohhh in ya face!*
*any gotchas bearing resemblance to living persons are purely coincidental and not under any circumstances to be taken as "labeling".
COMING SOON TO A THEATER NEAR YOU, FOOL NUMERAL DEUX (played by comedic actor William Murray) IS...
WHAT A GRAND SPECTACLE THIS WILL BE!*
Why did he know too little? "He's just not that bright." Says Roger Ebert of Ebert and Roper. "But", adds Gene Siskel from the grave, "I suspect in the sequel he will make a clever comeback", wink wink.
Got Laughter?
"Is it spiritual progress? Hell no, but it sure is damn funny." ~excerpt from How to Win Friends and Influence People.**
**excerpt not an actual excerpt.
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-10-2010
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-10-2010
Ha, it IS a gotcha..and clever too.
I like Anthony Quinn.
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-10-2010
So much for being "serious" about spiritual evolution. See, you are as social as the rest of these folks. You are clever though.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-10-2010
I never said I was serious, you are the one who tried to say I was serious (even provided pics), and strict, and now you are trying to make me eat your words. THAT is clever
Granted I didn't keep it to one gotcha, I knew I wouldn't.
I do still think the topic of emptiness is worth the discussion, if you are interested. Remember in an impermanent universe, its never too late for something completely new.
"these folks" of whom pray tell you mean?
Emptiness - The Fool - 09-10-2010
"Folly folly folly, life is but a dream."
Perfectly summed up Lil' Tara!
And yes, emptiness doesn't demand a toll, like true love. And only experience matters.
Empty Love to you!
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-10-2010
These folks = MOST of the forum lurkers.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
Fool, I agree...soO....the question arises...why even make social references as in your post 21? If there's no toll, then people just need to realize that rather than identify continuously with "things" (tolls) as opposed to emptiness.
So what I'm saying is, if emptiness is spoken of often enough, and it begins to sink in, its makes all other "things" obsolete. Hence the benefit of talking about it, rather than social complexities that insist on identity being "true".
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
Zorba the Greek wrote:These folks = MOST of the forum lurkers.So were you saying you see them as social or were you saying I see them as social?
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
I don't know what you see. I regard most people here as socially-driven because they are more interested in discussion around spiritual rethoric and terminology than pragmatic solutions to path-walking affairs.
It's only natural. It doesn't mean I have to like it, though.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
"most people" a fixed concept.
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
Fixed? Where?
Perhaps I should rephrase: "After careful examination of all the forum authors, I've seen that the vast majority of them are here to indulge in mental masturbation and social titillation."
They call me Doctor Zorba.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
and why are you here?
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
This place has a nice vibe.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
so its not a waste of time or dead end then?
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
I would call it "the weight of circumstances."
I'm here, so I sail it, until I'm not here anymore.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
so, you think you are different then MOST forum lurkers?
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
Yes.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
Well, that's honest at least. I don't see you that way, which I don't expect you to care either way.
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
Good for ya. I guess I'm so equal to others, that sooner or later you'll question everyone to your heart's contentment.
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
not just you are equal, everything is equal...of course. Just like the map and being outside it or however you said it.
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
May I borrow your glasses sometime?
Emptiness - Wei Shan Yang - 09-11-2010
what for?
(and you asked for that question)
Emptiness - Zorba the Greek - 09-11-2010
I wanna see all things as equal too!
(for a we while, anyway)