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Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
*intended more to open my mind than to explain anything in a rational manner*
"At various times don Juan attempted to name his knowledge for my
benefit. He felt that the most appropriate name was 'nagualism', but
that the term was too obscure. Calling it simply 'knowledge' made it too
vague, and to call it 'witchcraft' was debasing. 'The mastery of
intent' was too abstract, and 'the search for total freedom' too long
and metaphorical. Finally, because he was unable to find a more
appropriate name, he called it 'sorcery', although he admitted it was
not nearly accurate.
Over the years, he had given me different definitions of sorcery, but
he had always maintained that definitions change as knowledge
increases."
***
"Think of it this way," he proceeded. "It isn't that as time goes by
you're learning sorcery. Rather, what you're learning is to save energy.
This energy will enable you to handle some of the energy fields which
are inaccessible to you now.
"Sorcery, properly speaking, is simply the ability to use energy
fields that are not employed in perceiving the ordinary world we know.
Sorcery is a state of awareness and the ability to perceive something
which ordinary perception cannot.
"Everything I've put you through," don Juan went on, "and each of the
things I've shown you was only a device to convince you that there's
more to us than meets the eye.
We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery because there is really
nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is
incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox!
"Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or
another, that he (or she) is learning sorcery. However, all he's really
doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his
being, and that he can reach it."
***
"He said that in the universe there is an unmeasurable, indescribable
force which sorcerers call Intent, and that absolutely everything that
exists in the entire cosmos is attached to Intent by a connecting link.
Sorcerers, or warriors, as he called them, were concerned with
discussing, understanding, and employing that connecting link.
They were especially concerned with cleaning it of the numbing
effects brought about by the ordinary concerns of their everyday lives.
Sorcery at this level could be defined as the procedure of cleaning
one's connecting link to Intent. Don Juan stressed that this 'cleaning
procedure' was extremely difficult to understand, or to learn to
perform."
***
"The aim of the new seers is to reach a state of total awareness in order
to experience all the possibilities of perception available to man.
This state of awareness even implies an alternative way of dying."
"The Power Of Silence" - Carlos Castaneda
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
"Notwithstanding the mythologic vagaries and the psychologic illusions of the intellectual content of religion, the metaphysical assumptions of error and the techniques of self-deception, the political distortions and the socioeconomic perversions of the philosophic content of religion, the spiritual experience of personal religion remains genuine and valid."
***
"No matter how illusory and erroneous one’s theology, one’s religion may be wholly genuine and everlastingly true."
***
"Although religious experience is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon, such an experience embraces a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality."
***
"When theology masters religion, religion dies; it becomes a doctrine instead of a life. The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. Theology constitutes the religious effort to define, clarify, expound, and justify the experiential claims of religion, which, in the last analysis, can be validated only by living faith. In the higher philosophy of the universe, wisdom, like reason, becomes allied to faith. Reason, wisdom, and faith are man’s highest human attainments. Reason introduces man to the world of facts, to things; wisdom introduces him to a world of truth, to relationships; faith initiates him into a world of divinity, spiritual experience.
Faith most willingly carries reason along as far as reason can go and then goes on with wisdom to the full philosophic limit; and then it dares to launch out upon the limitless and never-ending universe journey in the sole company of TRUTH.
Science (knowledge) is founded on the inherent (adjutant spirit) assumption that reason is valid, that the universe can be comprehended. Philosophy (co-ordinate comprehension) is founded on the inherent (spirit of wisdom) assumption that wisdom is valid, that the material universe can be co-ordinated with the spiritual. Religion (the truth of personal spiritual experience) is founded on the inherent (Thought Adjuster) assumption that faith is valid, that God can be known and attained."
***
"There is a reality in religious experience that is proportional to the spiritual content, and such a reality is transcendent to reason, science, philosophy, wisdom, and all other human achievements. The convictions of such an experience are unassailable; the logic of religious living is incontrovertible; the certainty of such knowledge is superhuman; the satisfactions are superbly divine, the courage indomitable, the devotions unquestioning, the loyalties supreme, and the destinies final—eternal, ultimate, and universal."
Urantia: THE REALITY OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - seesaw - 10-31-2011
I have issues with some of this.
The reality of experience huh?
Well any experience we have is typically supported by a internal discourse, its aim is to support the experience, to maintain and stabilse, to justify, blah blah blah. Therefore most experiences have this.Just look at a schizophrenics or psychotics 'reasons'. Its not that spiritual experiences are better and more 'transecendent to reason', they just have a special flavour of discourse that accompany them. You know pompous lofty illuminated spiel.Its just internal dialogue. Even zen has its special internal dialogue, sutras etc. I have had my fair share of being nuts and trust me when i say i've had a good variety of different supporting discourses that i was running internally.
When i read the quotes above I see internal dialogue propping up an experience
Anyway when are you going to write what you experience rather than just reaching for lofty illuminated others?
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - scout1 - 10-31-2011
"Urantia" is a sick cult.
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
scout1 wrote:"Urantia" is a sick cult.
I remind you of course people say the same thing about Castaneda... your statement is essentially meaningless... possibly a defense mechanism to shield your fragile mind from that which scares it or cannot understand lol just joking
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - scout1 - 10-31-2011
Urantia is stupid and boring.
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
"Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual
sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity,
selfishness, cruelty, hate,
malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the
assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit,
which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human
being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit
of the eternal God."
-Urantia, RELIGION IN HUMAN EXPERIENCE
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - scout1 - 10-31-2011
gao, this is a complete **** !
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
"The world is filled with lost souls, not lost in the theologic sense but lost in the directional meaning, wandering about in confusion among the isms and cults of a frustrated philosophic era."
-Urantia, RELIGION IN HUMAN EXPERIENCE
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
“The tonal begins at birth and ends at death, but the
nagual never ends. The nagual has no limit. The nagual is where Power
hovers.”
“For the nagual, there is no land, or air, or water.
Therefore, the nagual glides, or flies, or does anything it can do in
the time of the nagual, which is not related at all to the time of the
tonal. These two things do not intersect.”
“The tonal and the nagual are two different worlds. In one you talk, in the other you act.”
-Castaneda C. — Tales of Power
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
Glad you deleted your childish and cowardly objections scout1... (If you have any substance to share, present it like a man with dignity)
I won't defend the Urantia papers (besides debunking flat out lies)
I let it speak for itself
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
"The Son of Man was always a well-poised personality.
Even his enemies maintained a wholesome respect for him; they even
feared his presence. Jesus
was unafraid. He was surcharged with divine enthusiasm, but he never
became fanatical. He was emotionally active but never flighty. He was
imaginative but always practical. He frankly faced the realities of
life, but he was never dull or prosaic. He was courageous but never
reckless; prudent but never cowardly. He was sympathetic but not
sentimental; unique but not eccentric. He was pious but not
sanctimonious. And he was so well-poised because he was so perfectly
unified."
-Urantia- THE ACME OF RELIGIOUS LIVING
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
"The Son of Man was always a well-poised
personality.
Even his enemies maintained a wholesome respect for him; they even
feared his presence. Jesus
was unafraid. He was surcharged with divine enthusiasm, but he never
became fanatical. He was emotionally active but never flighty. He was
imaginative but always practical. He frankly faced the realities of
life, but he was never dull or prosaic. He was courageous but never
reckless; prudent but never cowardly. He was sympathetic but not
sentimental; unique but not eccentric. He was pious but not
sanctimonious. And he was so well-poised because he was so perfectly
unified."
-Urantia- THE ACME OF RELIGIOUS LIVING
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 10-31-2011
"Love is infectious, and when human devotion
is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only
genuine and unselfish
love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of
dynamic affection,
this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental
emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization
would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood
of man."
-Urantia- PROBLEMS OF GROWTH
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-01-2011
“The Tonal begins at birth and ends at death, but the Nagual never ends. The Nagual has no limit. The Nagual is where Power
hovers.”
“For the Nagual, there is no land, or air, or water.
Therefore, the Nagual glides, or flies, or does anything it can do in
the Time of the Nagual, which is not related at all to the Time of the Tonal. These two things do not intersect.”
“The Tonal and the Nagual are two different worlds. In one you talk, in the other you act.”
-Castaneda C. — Tales of Power
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-01-2011
::::::: USE THE FORCE :::::::
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-01-2011
Creation Hymn
A time is envisioned when the world was not, only a watery chaos (the dark,
"indistinguishable sea") and a warm cosmic breath, which could give an impetus
of life. Notice how thought gives rise to desire (when something is thought of it can then be
desired) and desire links non-being to being (we desire what is not but then try to bring it
about that it is). Yet the whole process is shrouded in mystery.
Where do the gods fit in this creation scheme?
The non-existent was not; the existent was not at that time. The atmosphere was not nor the
heavens which are beyond. What was concealed? Where? In whose protection? Was it water?
An unfathomable abyss?
There was neither death nor immortality then. There was not distinction of day or night.
That alone breathed windless by its own power. Other than that there was not anything
else.
Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning. All this was an indistinguishable sea.
That which becomes, that which was enveloped by the void, that alone was born through the
power of heat.
Upon that desire arose in the beginning. This was the first discharge of thought. Sages
discovered this link of the existent to the nonexistent, having searched in the heart with
wisdom.
Their line [of vision] was extended across; what was below, what was above? There were
impregnators, there were powers: inherent power below, impulses above.
Who knows truly? Who here will declare whence it arose, whence this creation? The gods
are subsequent to the creation of this. Who, then, knows whence it has come into
being?
Whence this creation has come into being; whether it was made or not; he in the highest
heaven is its surveyor. Surely he knows, or perhaps he knows not.
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-02-2011
"The new seers used petty tyrants," don Juan said, staring at me
fixedly, "not only to get rid of their self-importance, but to
accomplish the very sophisticated maneuver of moving themselves out of
this world. You'll understand that maneuver as we keep on discussing the
mastery of awareness."
"The Fire From Within" - Carlos Castaneda: Petty Tyrants
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-02-2011
seesaw wrote:
(I wrote)
I have issues with some of this. (your have some issues eh?)
The reality of experience huh? (yep...)
Well any experience we have is typically supported by a internal discourse, its aim is to support the experience, to maintain and stabilse, to justify, blah blah blah. (blah blah blah is right!) Therefore most experiences have this. (like the one you are having right now) Just look at a schizophrenics or psychotics 'reasons'. (look at YOURS) Its not that spiritual experiences are better and more 'transecendent to reason', they just have a special flavour of discourse that accompany them. (oh, is that the most significant thing that differentiates them...?) You know pompous lofty illuminated spiel. (or wisdom as it was recorded in that time and place) Its just internal dialogue. (are you sure thats ALL it is??) Even zen has its special internal dialogue, sutras etc. (internal dialogue isn't ALL negative you know) I have had my fair share of being nuts and trust me when i say i've had a good variety of different supporting discourses that i was running internally. (you are special?)
When i read the quotes above I see internal dialogue propping up an experience (is that all you 'see'?)
Anyway when are you going to write what you experience rather than just reaching for lofty illuminated others? (patience, and dont downplay the wisdom and knowledge from the past, all 'knowledge' is not created equal, some sources have more power or spirit potency than others)
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-02-2011
seesaw wrote:Its not that spiritual experiences are better and more 'transecendent to reason', they just have a special flavour of discourse that accompany them.
(Is that the most significant thing that differentiates them?)
You know pompous lofty illuminated spiel. (or wisdom as it was recorded in that time and place)
Its just internal dialogue. (are you sure thats ALL it is? maybe you err in this conclusion)
When i read the quotes above I see internal dialogue propping up an experience (is that all you 'see'?)
Anyway when are you going to write what you experience rather than just reaching for lofty illuminated others?
(patience, and dont underestimate the wisdom from 'lofty illuminated others'... I think you downplay the value and meaning of these quotes, all sources of knowledge are not the same, some have more spirit power or potency than others.)
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-02-2011
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-02-2011
Eat more calories from your favorite raw foods and train! All
bodybuilders generally eat WAY MORE CALORIES than your average person.
With more calories you will have the energy to train and workout and that is the only way you will get stronger, by exercising.
I am still new to all this but am experiencing awesome results...
couple weeks ago I did 67 pull-ups in a day (not all at one time mind
you, but throughout the entire day) and I could barely do a few when I
was younger... and I attribute it to my change of SAD diet to a high
raw plant food diet... I am really noticing the difference as time goes
by and its awesome!
One 'tool' I suggest is the exercise bands (resistance tubes) , they
are stretchy and made of latex like a big rubber band, you can do tons
of exercises anywhere... its so amazing, I like it WAY WAY better than
when I use to use a conventional gym in school.
its cheap, can get it at wal-mart:
Understanding Modern Nagualism, Jesus, the Urantia papers, & the Infinite Journey - Guest - 11-02-2011
"Things are time conditioned, but truth is timeless. The more truth you know, the more truth you are, the more of the past you can understand and of the future you can comprehend.
Truth is inconcussible—forever exempt from all transient vicissitudes, albeit never dead and formal, always vibrant and adaptable—radiantly alive. But when truth becomes linked with fact, then both time and space condition its meanings and correlate its values. Such realities of truth wedded to fact become concepts and are accordingly relegated to the domain of relative cosmic realities."
-Urantia SUPREME AND ULTIMATE—TIME AND SPACE ( 118:3 TIME-SPACE RELATIONSHIPS)