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What is the Fire Within? - Vrill - 08-14-2007
LoneWolf wrote:The fire from within starts with a flame that begins to burn within your human body, how do you ignite it?
What is its fuel?
How much will you burn?
Will it hurt?
What happens after?
This is important.
In the previous topic, some said, "Awareness" of a certain sort.
Some said, "Kundalini"
So I am asking you now what you think ...
I am asking you,
asking me,
look and look again,
until you see ...
[...]
(Edited due to the thread having overlapping conversation on different topic (the fire from within was the discussion intent for this thread, Vrill added an aside about his dog dying and the replies from people were on the subject of the dog and other topics). The other cleaned up topic is here: [link=http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/5134/pass ... mal-friend]passing of an animal friend[/link]. The thread in its original form is in Oblivion [link=http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/640/Wolfs ... ire-Within]here[/link])
What is the Fire Within? - Nagual LoneWolf - 08-14-2007
Our animals are true warriors...I have never known more powerful warriors than dogs. They are truly examples to what we need as alignments to power.
I feel for you as my dogs are truly exceptional companions. Lone Wolf
What is the Fire Within? - Aranno Way - 08-16-2007
Sorry to hear this Vrill, I have a dog right now that dreams with me and he is six years old and I know when then time comes it will be most unfortunate.
I still cry and think of my Parrot that died 4 years ago because he would follow my assemblage point movements during my most profound achievements with my perception, he would not leave me alone when I was in the second attention.
I would be in deep states of seeing and when I did this he would fly of my shoulder and I would put him back and he would fly on my shoulder again and would not want to leave and when I look in his eyes he was going through or perceiving my awareness shifts.
My Parrot had a two foot wing span at least and was quite a site to see when he wanted to be on you.
I suspect that the person that tried to control my awareness when I was really young poisoned him because he was around just before I confronted him about his deceptive activities.
I don't talk to him any more but I have his phone # and I think I am going to give him a call just to irritate his world because now he "fears" me big-time.
What is the Fire Within? - chlorella - 08-17-2007
our warrior animal friends take our poison
they manifest cancer and die for us
astonishing that something will do this for another
also astonishing is how every thought comes back sometime
to bear fruit
we can sicken our most cherished others by being muddy with ourselves
a salute to our beautiful fellow beings!
i miss my cats
What is the Fire Within? - rosygyro - 03-08-2008
the fire within is only unlocked once your fear challenges have been met! which is rare within an individuals lifetime... most people succomb to a very
realistic imaginary fire... fuelled by their own avoidance of their real battle. none ever acheive the fire within without first having scared themselves
shitless.. they usually grow out of trying to scare others in the process... all warriors learn to balance their emotions till they are not afraid.. and
equally have nothing to prove when it comes to trying to scare others..... fear real fear.... will strip you down till you are a no man,, and send you
powerless into the unknown... imaginary fire of the belly is pure pure bullshit! unless you earned it... and you know if youve earned it!.. so whats this
conversation really about... This fire that stands in our bereft and barren powerless lives.. to reveal our challenges to our warrior selves... we know where
it is! question is.. what are we going to do to the fake shaman..? break his power gourd and tear his blanket..... steal his soul! drive him insane!.. watch
him pitifully crawl his way to the one power.. the fire within... or leave him as a fake... I dont know which is worse......watching a coward bullying the
brave... or watching a fake shaman earning his keep. I reckon the time has come to let the dead rest!...
no-one rulestime!
What is the Fire Within? - Crocossaurio - 03-08-2008
your friend suffers nolonger the inconviniences of the flesh, Vrill... alas, it surprises me no end that someone who uses "Vrill" as his/her ID,
even gets sad for that, instead of sharing the joy that the creature feels as it finds itself free from the suffering... You sure you know what Vrill is, means
and... all which is associated with it? (smile) (don't worry, I don't need you to answer it... but you sure should try to answer it to yourself...
great deal of goodness would it do you... )
What is the Fire Within? - Vrill - 03-19-2008
My canine friend suffered a lot. I think I felt sadness because he suffered so much, and I couldn't help him.
Maybe death is as you say, a liberation of energy, but it's also natural and necessary to grieve.
What is the Fire Within? - Crocossaurio - 03-24-2008
Our grievance for the so called "departed ones", is - ultimately - a consequence of our ignorance. We grieve because of our selfishness; we grieve
because our selfishness forces us to feel sorry and - worst still - pitty for ourselves. We inwardly contemplate the future ahead of us without the physical
presence of those departed loved ones and that is why we suffer... our egotism, selfishness, makes us agonize for not having their comapnionship from then on.
And yet, it is our ignorance that is responsible for such erroneous belief... For we do not loose their companionship, nor do we loose their love, their care
for us, not even their physical presence... Oh, yes, not even their physical presence, you read well, rest assured.
it is ignorance that which prevents us from undestanding that physicality is not what we are taught it is. Physicality spans a vast range of vibratory states,
each with its characteristic frequencies... Disposing of the carcass (the fleshy body), is not to "die", to cease to exist, to be forever out of rech
and contact from those who remain in the carcass...
It is yet our ignorance, that which prevents us from remaining in contact with the departed loved ones. For even our apparently limited physical body is
equiped with sensors fully functional and fully capable of communicating and interacting with vibratory states above and below the range that we call our
physicality or reality.
It is however, our ignorance, that which causes us from brainwashing ourselves from the very craddle, to believe that statements like the ones which I am
making here, are but fictional, wishful thinking, fantasy, impossible and whichever other similar labels we have to rotulate and catalogue them...
Were it not for our ignorance, we wouldn't grieve, but rather rejoyce. Alas, there are still a few cultures world wide which do exactly that... they
rejoyce and celebrate in joy, the departure of loved ones, whenever one departs... cultures which our self-enfatuated, pompously proud and imbecilically
cretinic "civilized" western cultures label as "primitive" and look down onto them with contempt and disdain, as below human...
Do not take my word for it, though. Use your intelligence to ponder upon what I say here... verify soberly and impartially, why did you grieve, what was it
that caused you to feel sad for your loss. Do it, but do it with courage and without crutches... for any excuse is but a crutch... and any crutch is an
excuse... Do not hide behind the excuse that you felt sorry for the much it suffered... for that is a crutch of your mind to blind your vision of truth. the
truth that you felt sad for some other reason... Find that reason and you'll have found a truth simpler, vaster and more clarifying than any words that i
or anybody else can ever profess...
All anyone can do is to point where doors may be. The crossing of doors' thresholds, though, is an individual task that must be undertaken by the
individuality seeking to cross it.
I pointed you here one of such doors. Crossing its threshold to see what's past it, it's your concern, not mine. It is your walking, not mine.
May you have the strength and the courage to walk it and the sobriety to see with open eyes what's past it.
Joao Monteiro
What is the Fire Within? - mybelovedmateria - 03-26-2008
lonewolf, this is a good time to invite you to my board as we had some big animal event lately
you'll be interested
(still in search of a wolf man)
universe
vrill, if someone shows up there with an avatar like yours this is a cause for instant deletion and permanent banning
it reminds me of the avatar of a certain "sidarther" on that junk site
croco,
nice to meet you, i haven't read your text since i'm not so interested in death and dying in general
What is the Fire Within? - Crocossaurio - 03-26-2008
Beloved materia...
you wrote:
> croco,
>nice to meet you, i haven't read your text since i'm not so interested in death and dying in general
If you read it or not, is your concern, not mine and you don't need to tell me if you read it or not. It was addressed to Vrill, not to you, anyway. As for
meeting me... ... it seems to me that you are going through life like an hurricane... fast and aimlessly. You met me in Genaro's Hat and you sent me an
invitation to your forum. I didn't reply that invitation of yours, to see if you could understand by yourself why I didn't answer it, either to accept
it or to decline it, but you obviously didn't get it and rather just confirmed to me that I was spot on right in not being interested on it.
For your beneffit, though - to save you wasting time contacting me again in whichever manner or by whichever means - allow me to inform you that I don't
bite bates unless I choose to. Praising others beyond the sensible to lure them into one's claws, doesn't work with me... I taught the spider its
fly-luring-trick... come, fly, come to my dinner, be welcome at my table...
I don't care, but it sure looks to me, like you're just another one of those idjits who create cults and go out of their way in their
money/attention-grabbing efforts, by putting on the public-appearences-mantle of crusaders battling for the salvation of damned souls... even though no soul
has ever asked any of them to be saved... or been told, for that matter, "what" do they need to be saved from...
So... nice to meet me? Perhaps. Only you can tell. And only to you can it bear any importance or relevancy, since to me it means nothing. Think whatever you
want, conclude whatever you feel appropriate to conclude, but whatever you do, make an effort to memorize the fact that in Life, there are still a few bunch of
individualities to whom charlatains and parrots will never be able to impress, let alone lie to in any manner, to any degree whatsoever, for such
individualities have enough understanding of essences to detect them at the very moment they make themselves present.
Were you wise, you would have grabbed the opportunity when you crossed one of such individualities' path. As it turns out, you just did what was only too
expected from you to do... You tried to fool a Fool.
Be well, all the success to your endeavours and in all honesty, I sincerely wish that Life may grant you all that you need... rather than a grain of sand of
what you want.
Cordially
Joao Monteiro
What is the Fire Within? - mybelovedmateria - 03-29-2008
They asked the Beatles what instruments they play...
Ringo: I play drums
Paul: I play the bass
George: I play guitar
John: I also play guitar, and sometimes I play the fool
What is the Fire Within? - Crocossaurio - 03-30-2008
John had a genuine skill. You don't.
What is the Fire Within? - Bob Carr - 03-30-2008
Chlorella makes a good observation. The continued destruction and extinction of species is definitely an example of the poisons and cancers within the human
Tonal.
Butterflies are nearly extinct in Britian, wolves and bison are being eradicated again in the USA for economic gain and ego glory.
If the rabble suffer a plague, even the king in his mansion is not immune.
What is the Fire Within? - Vrill - 04-09-2008
Material:
If Wolf or someone I respected gave me respectful feedback I might change my avatar, but I've been using it for quite awhile, and I've been posting on
the board quite awhile.
Cross:
What you speak about is a big thing. Our ignorance is what keeps us from seeing Truth and the world beyond.
What you convey is Hope and that's a wonderful thing.
Grief is a process, I went through for a couple of days. Not a really big deal in this case as, my dog was sick a long time, off and on, so I think most of
the grieving was done during his illness.
Still it's there. So if we just push it aside then that's not skillful, as that's aversion. What I am saying is, stuff comes up. Because we are
ignorant we have afflictions, or Klesha's (that's the Buddhist term)
This is material we can work with. Sometimes we need it! We get what we need. The universe is very good at that providing us with what we need.
So we have to work the material, in this case Grief, to get past it. It is a selfish emotion, and pretty unskillful, but one of the most intense things we can
go through.
So what do we do with it? We have to be mindful. I think that opens up the doors of perception you speak about.
To see beyond all that and know the soul or awareness beyond form, or beyond conditioning is a big thing!
I'm doing a retreat in the summer, and I will have chance to go deep, so maybe some things like this will get clearer for me.
What is the Fire Within? - mybelovedmateria - 04-10-2008
hey vrill, it's not so bad after all, but i don't like the blinking if it's too fast, maybe if you find a slow and smooth transition between the
two pictures it will be better
croco,
i have too many skills maybe, not all of them are as visible as john's
thanks for the pieces of knowledge you wanted to give me, anyway, but as you see, my path is different and i got the knowledge from somewhere else
What is the Fire Within? - mybelovedmateria - 04-10-2008
the Egyptian background of the Toltec knowledge
this place is momentarily under some reconstruction, you'll need to read around a little to find the relevant pieces of information
i might straighten it out some day, on the other hand, those who are interested always search and find
What is the Fire Within? - Crocossaurio - 04-11-2008
What you have are too many self delusions and definitely too many assumptions, for I didn't want anything, least of all to give you what you assume that I
wanted to give you.
Glad your path is quite different... and glad you have where to get whichever knowledge you fancy to believe that you are getting...
All the best, and may Life grant you what you need, rather than a single atom of what you want.
What is the Fire Within? - Crocossaurio - 04-11-2008
Vril, my apologies for the momentary deviation of the topic in my replies to Sid's mirror image (beloved materia).
You started this thread with a questioning... so here, a small contribution to the topic...
Everybody talks about fire and flames, but I dare ask how many can answer a simple question... "WHAT" is fire? "What" is a flame?
The ortodox scientific establishment will promptly jump in with a myriad of descriptions of Fire's attributes, without however, suceeding in explaining
anything at all about "what" fire or a flame are.
Combustion is an effect, not the thing itself, that is, fire, flame...
Likewise, the cause(s) of fire or flames aren't themselves the very fire or flames.
So, I would suggest you to start asking yourself a few simple questions, like... is Fire the product of something else? Is it a process? A function of
something else? An abstraction powerful enough to materialize effects that we can detect sensorially? An entity in its own right? What is fire?
Never mind from whence it is or might be, i.e., from within or from without or from wherever. Until you find out and understand "what" is fire, your
pursuit of the answer to the question "what is the fire from within" is condemned to failure.
But lo and behold... you already have the answer. You only need to study it. Study yourself and you won't be able to miss the answer to the questions you
are asking, Vril, this much I do promisse you. And those who know me know only too well that I'm a man of my word whom ALWAYS keeps his promisses...
Be well
Joao
What is the Fire Within? - Vrill - 04-11-2008
Awesome croc ... back on topic! (note to self ... post personal issues in separate posts ... hrmm ..)
Fire in the traditional sense, tends to consume something to fuel itself.
My own inner fire is partially stoked by my work with negative emotions, and bad habits and my own resistance to change.
One sense that I have is that all views, personal or otherwise that hold some form of duality will inherently generate conflict, a kind of conflict that can
lead to suffering.
However if we have the ability to engage what the Tibetans call Rigpa, or non-dualistic awareness then we can engage another kind of fire.
This is something "other". Then the activities of suffering, can be the fuel or material for our transformational fire.
Are we willing to hurl ourselves on the pyre and burn Phoenix-like?
Has anyone else discovered the Attention I speak about?
What is the Fire Within? - Vrill - 04-11-2008
Materia: Ah the blinking thing. I think it might vary from smooth to incredibly annoying depending on your settings. Thanks for making me aware of that.
At any rate, welcome, and thanks for your perspective. I read some of your recent posts and I found your comments insightful.
What is the Fire Within? - Bob May - 04-11-2008
Hi Croc and Vrill,
Great question Croc. Down to basics. What is fire. I will contemplate that and see where it leads me.
Earth, Air, Fire and Water are symbols of something finer and real at every level whether material, astral, spiritual or divine.
Aleph, Mem, and Shin are the Hebrew letters that translate to "Spirit" in it's three "modes of operation", I guess you could call it.
Aleph or A means Breath. Mem means Water. Shin means Fire.
You can get some idea of these realities by looking at how these elements behave in dense mater.
Air is a fluid that compresses and stretches and tends to expand away from itself.
Water is a fliud that does not compress or stretch and tends to draw itself together.
Earth is a negative electrically speaking and draws positive to it.
Fire is a cleansing element. It produces heat. Heat changes the basic properties of things so that they become either softer (brass) harder (steel) or
something completely different.
All things are purified by fire.
"However if we have the ability to engage what the Tibetans call Rigpa, or non-dualistic awareness then we can engage another kind of fire.
This is something "other". Then the activities of suffering, can be the fuel or material for our transformational fire.
Are we willing to hurl ourselves on the pyre and burn Phoenix-like?
Has anyone else discovered the Attention I speak about? "
I am not familiar with Budhist terminology so I will use my own words.
I have felt the fire of the Kundalini and it is Fire, a burning heat. There is no flame but the heat changes a person. My teacher compared it to having acid in
his veins. I would compare it to having rubbing alchohol poured inside of you. Cold and hot at the same time,...at first. Then like burning coals in your
cells. It comes and goes sometimes seemingly for no aparent reason. Sometimes initiated by meditations or just thoughts of spiritual things alone.
It is HOT, not pleasantly warm.
The Bible says man was formed of the dust of the earth. And to dust we shall return. Dust is a mixture of air and earth.
Just rolling around some ideas here for consideration.
What is the Fire Within? - Vrill - 04-14-2008
Bob, I don't know much about Kundalini practice. You are much more qualified to speak about it.
The Tibetans have secret practices, that shouldn't be done without the correct empowerments, and other lifestyle requisites, that involve breath and energy
manipulation, including Tumo practices, or inner heat. Tumo is usually given to ascetic yogis and people on retreat. ... To keep the from freezing to death?
I haven't been given any of those practices..
Kundalini Fire is created through advanced Yogic practices, which if you have a qualified teacher, are really powerful, and extremely hazardous to everyone
else.
None of the techniques I work with involve manipulating body energies through the various "wind channels" however.
These techniques are skillful means (or for the un-initiated ... unskillful means!)
Means are suited for different people for specific circumstances, but they don't address the root of the problem.
So how do we address the root of the problem, which is the Foreign Installation, Ego, the notion of a separate self?
I would define the "fire" in one way as the frequency of moments of insight. "Bodhichitta" or Wisdom Energy is sometimes used to describe
it.
Usually we aren't very present, our attention is weak, so the fire is weak or not there.
If insight is lacking or attention is lacking the moments of insight are spaced widely apart.
If they are quite frequent insight becomes quite tangible. One western Buddhist monk I know said that it can be like a laser beam.
Recently I've been reading a fascinating book called "Buddhahood Without Meditation, by Dudjom Lingpa (about 1895)
This book de-constructs the notion that we have a separate Self in a series of visions, dreamings. It uses a number of logical arguments to perform the
deconstruction process.
It's different than anything else I've read so far. The approach is called Nang-Jan or t'hreg-chhod (cutting through solidity).
Simply put if you look at anything long enough and hard enough, it will disappear. Not literally of course!
This idea of using insight to rearrange our description of the world is part and parcel to the Toltec way as well.
If we have this notion that we exist in one form, when our reality is something entirely different.
You can see how this dichotomy creates a kind of madness in average humans!
Resolving the dichotomy is "Stopping the World", as we have spoken about previously.
"Stopping the World" is the term Toltecs would use to describe cutting the root of our Self-Identification (or the Foreign Installation)
We have to attack the root of the problem first, the root of the problem is Self-Identification.
Whatever we get from solving this puzzle is not madness, but Freedom.
What is the Fire Within? - Bob May - 04-15-2008
Hi Vrill,
"Tumo practices, or inner heat. Tumo is usually given to ascetic yogis and people on retreat. ... To keep the from freezing to death? I haven't been
given any of those practices.. "
My teacher sited these practices and mentioned that they were a matter of opening the spleen chakra for heat.
Not the fire of Kundalini which he was adamant about as an energy from outside our bodies reached far above our heads and which comes down through the body
turns at the base of the spine and rises. Then the fun begins.
Touching with the Serpent Fire is touching with Power. It changes the body. Like a refiner's fire the Bible says. It is not for everyone.
"Means are suited for different people for specific circumstances, but they don't address the root of the problem.
So how do we address the root of the problem, which is the Foreign Installation, Ego, the notion of a separate self?
Many means can lead to this revelation. But in my opinion, in a nutshell, we are separate. If we believe we are, we are.
It is only through seeing reality from a higher perspective do we realize that there is a "place" we can reach where we are not separate.
To reach this "place" is to realize Oneness. In order to reach this place we must separate ourselves from our ego to a certain extent and be still.
No judgement, no pre-concieved notions. It's kind of a catch 22.
That is the Biblical meaning of Repentance or "a changing of the mind." As my teacher used to say, "you must unlearn everything you thought you
knew."
Any spiritual experience however small helps us in this unlearning process. There is more "out there" than what everyone agrees upon.
It is the invisible things that are eternal and so, more real. Contemplating these things is a life time of growing in that direction.
There is no end of the process as far as I can see.
"This book de-constructs the notion that we have a separate Self in a series of visions, dreamings. It uses a number of logical arguments to perform the
deconstruction process."
The Sermon on the Mount is another as are all the teachings of Jesus and the inability of mankind to follow the Old Testament Law. So are Don Juan's
precepts. They all have one thing in common.
They paint you into a corner. In that corner you will find your inability to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish. That is the end of yourself.
True humility,...
..which is what you were trying to reach in the first place, ...isn't it?
A paradox.
What is the Fire Within? - mybelovedmateria - 04-21-2008
Crocossaurio wrote:
What you have are too many self delusions and definitely too many assumptions, for I didn't want anything, least of all to give you what you assume that
I wanted to give you.
Glad your path is quite different... and glad you have where to get whichever knowledge you fancy to believe that you are getting...
croco, i may not have too many self delusions, but fact is i have been cheated and mislead by people like you, hence there was some temporary confusion in
the past, seemingly all gone now
did you really think you and your cohorts were the only place one could get the knowledge?
but hey, that's the same old trick again... "fance to believe that you are getting"... it's either staying with you or no knowledge at all...
at least in your edifice of manipulating people
well, the piece between the two of us is not settled yet, more to come...
What is the Fire Within? - mybelovedmateria - 04-21-2008
Crocossaurio wrote:
So... nice to meet me? Perhaps. Only you can tell. And only to you can it bear any importance or relevancy, since to me it means nothing. Think whatever you
want, conclude whatever you feel appropriate to conclude, but whatever you do, make an effort to memorize the fact that in Life, there are still a few bunch
of individualities to whom charlatains and parrots will never be able to impress, let alone lie to in any manner, to any degree whatsoever, for such
individualities have enough understanding of essences to detect them at the very moment they make themselves present.
Were you wise, you would have grabbed the opportunity when you crossed one of such individualities' path. As it turns out, you just did what was only too
expected from you to do... You tried to fool a Fool.
so, that's the next trick, presenting yourself as the know-all, nag-u-al in another spelling
but well, the sentence about those individuals to whom
charlatans can never lie sounds quite truthful, i think i can identify with it...
or in somebody else's words: "you can fool some people some time, but you can't fool all the people all the time"
so i leave you with your own sentence: "were you wise..."
you can finish it however you want