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+---- Thread: Carlos Castaneda (/thread-20099.html)
Carlos Castaneda - dreamways - 04-11-2009
"This forum is devoted to discussion of Carlos Castaneda and his books that revealed the teachings of the Nagual Don Juan
Matus."
Hey folks, Lone Wolf has asked me to moderate this forum, and I figured I'd give it a try. Not that it really seems to need moderating, but maybe I can
help draw some focus onto its original theme. So, I guess I'll start off with a post about my take on the man.
I've always pegged Castaneda as a "winner," as well as being somebody who sided with winners. His behavior, over the years, seemed to be guided
by this overall principal. The reason that I bring this up is because of the dreams I had that took place in the world of the death defiers. They are the
ultimate winners, in that it is actually their collective intent to take the path that gives every possible advantage. It had been a question in my mind, as I
experienced more and more within dreaming, how could somebody like Castaneda, start off knowing nothing about sorcery, but end up having learned the best of
all of sorcery's principals. It is not an accident that his books are basically the cream of sorcery, because what I believe is that his primary role
model was a death defier, and that Don Juan was probably aware of that.
As I see it, the entire spectrum of dreaming covers quite a bit of ground, but the part that operates through power is called sorcery. It is within that realm
of power that we cross paths with inorganic beings, sorcerers, naguals, death defiers and other inexplicable awareness. So, power is like a large river into
which other smaller rivers of awareness flow. This is where human and inorganic awareness can intermingle, but only within that main river of power.
Sorcerers therefore treat power as a medium, not a commodity. Within that river, I believe that Carlos was very discerning about what his intent was, and this
would probably serve as a good lesson to anyone that wants to accomplish something with dreaming and the nagual.
From what I can tell, a nagual man or woman must first be connected with some sort of lineage or path before they can become a nagual, they cannot be some sort
of free-floating nagual that is not an expression of any direction in particular. It's like, the fact that somebody is a nagual reveals that they have
taken a side, so to speak. The only difference between a possible nagual and an actual nagual, only being the ingredient of energetic commitment. So, first
and foremost, Castaneda was about his lineage, the only question being, what exactly was his specific direction within it?
Carlos Castaneda - docta lee - 04-11-2009
Hi Dreamways,
Glad you are for the task of mod for this section.
I agree with on most areas about Carlos and his books, the thing that disturbs me is the way he became later on when he had his "cult" in LA.
It is possible he was playing games with his apprentices and just using them and making that seem like sorcerery
It seems that maybe when Don Juan and Don Genaro left Carlos lost direction
These speculation are based on a doc i saw about Carlos and from Amy Wallace's book so i don't take this as actual fact but it is part of the story.
Regardless if he was a prick he was a brilliant writer and i do believe he was a sorcerer for sure.
I am very interested in Dreaming and the possible things that can happen within that.
I have seen allot already.
Thanks
Carlos Castaneda - dreamways - 04-11-2009
docta lee wrote:
Hi Dreamways,
Glad you are for the task of mod for this section.
I agree with on most areas about Carlos and his books, the thing that disturbs me is the way he became later on when he had his "cult" in LA.
It is possible he was playing games with his apprentices and just using them and making that seem like sorcerery
It seems that maybe when Don Juan and Don Genaro left Carlos lost direction
These speculation are based on a doc i saw about Carlos and from Amy Wallace's book so i don't take this as actual fact but it is part of the story.
Regardless if he was a prick he was a brilliant writer and i do believe he was a sorcerer for sure.
I am very interested in Dreaming and the possible things that can happen within that.
I have seen allot already. Thanks
Thanks for the welcome. Yes, Carlos had a way of getting underneath people's skin, that's for sure. I had my run in with him early on, but it only
revealed my shortcomings to myself, I can't really blame him or his people for it. At the time, I was extremely pissed off at him though, so I understand
the feelings that alot of people have for him. He had a way of rubbing people's faces in their worst qualities, which I believe was a direct manifestation
of the nagual. After my encounter with his "cult," I went on to do alot of work in the entertainment industry and rubbed elbows with quite a few
celebrities. I found that there was not really much difference with being around a pop star and their entourage as compared with the Castaneda experience.
The ocean of egomania that I found in the music and movie biz really put it all in perspective for me.
Through seeing energy in dreaming, I was able to confirm for myself that Castaneda was a legitimate sorcerer and nagual. He was as unique energetically as he
was in the physical world, but he was also just as veiled. Sort of hiding in plain sight. His energy body was very easy to find in dreaming, as if it was a
beacon, but for me to peer behind his curtain was not. My guess was that he was impenatrable to seeing, past a certain level, even to his closest circle.
When he died, I saw his energy body join with the death defiers, at the deepest level, so either I'm missing something or he was totally commited to their
path. I can only speak for what I saw, but maybe it was the reason that he seemed to be a bit "off on a tangent" somehow - saying one thing, but
doing an other, that is.
Carlos Castaneda - ARNWAY - 04-13-2009
Dreamways I was delighted to here that you are moderating here on Wolfs site and know that your involvement will benefit everyone with your knowledge. You are
the real deal and I have always been awed with your writtings and experience.
Keep up the good work.
Carlos Castaneda - dreamways - 04-14-2009
ARNWAY wrote:
Dreamways I was delighted to here that you are moderating here on Wolfs site and know that your involvement will benefit everyone with your knowledge. You
are the real deal and I have always been awed with your writings and experience. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I'll see what I can do here that might be helpful. I guess I should maybe make clear that I fully understand that Castaneda and his group got
pretty weird before he died, probably as a result of his condition. So I'm not trying to make excuses for that, weird is weird, but I also think that its
pretty common for people on chemo to get disoriented before they die, and he was no exception.
I also think that he was 100% committed to nagualism, true complete nagualism, that he somehow comprehended the entirety of its scope and stuck with it from
the start. Even though I never agreed with creation of Tensegrity and Cleargreen, I don't think that they actually contradict nagualism, but I can't
see how they help it either. But that's just my opinion.
Carlos Castaneda - Abramelinn - 04-15-2009
Hi Dreamways,
I'll tell you: Carlos was nothing but a messenger boy trying to live according to what he thought he understood of the messages he got.
But he was only supposed to deliver the message to the general public. No one of his lineage was interested in how he lived up to it.
Carlos Castaneda - dreamways - 04-15-2009
Abramelinn wrote:
Hi Dreamways,
I'll tell you: Carlos was nothing but a messenger boy trying to live according to what he thought he understood of the messages he got.
But he was only supposed to deliver the message to the general public. No one of his lineage was interested in how he lived up to it.
Ya, that seems to be the case, for sure.
Carlos Castaneda - spinfields - 12-15-2009
Carlos Castaneda has mentioned "a power place". It has interested me.
I have organised some expeditions to "a power place" in republic Kazakhstan.
For an example look:
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/IKS/Alexa ... itionA.htm
Has collected observations on influence "a power place" on the man.
For an example look:
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/ ... ationA.htm
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/ ... ectppA.htm
With group of adherents forms and the sizes of agate sticks and spheres which we charged in "a power place" have been thought over.
Special protective cases have been developed for them. Without them the charged objects of "a power place" cannot be constantly carried with itself
and to store houses.
If to you interestingly that write me on E-mail: alexandrshpilman78@gmail.com
Carlos Castaneda - Littlepaw - 11-08-2010
I must admit that my own view of Castaneda is very
conflicting with the one above, I know that wont be a problem so I'll
just say it for fun. I always felt that he was a complete looser! lol.
I see your observation about how he was aliened with winners like Don
Juan etc. Perhaps i secretly see myself as a looser. Damn it, secrets
out! I always thought that what happened to Carlos is not that he lost
his way but that he started having to actually survive a life of power
which I think is going to be difficult for most western men. I think I
am a little way through some processes of power and I cant handle them.
My theory is that Carlos Castaneda is like a brochure for sorcery
written by the spirit. I think one of his jobs was to deliver the
teachings and what a job he did! I don't think i have ever felt that
Carlos Castaneda was an example. Maybe an example of what not to do
LOL!
Carlos Castaneda - Wei Shan Yang - 11-09-2010
He was a trickster. His being so lame enabled us the reader to identify, put ourselves in his shoes as DJ was delivering the knowledge. If Carlos had been like DJ, we the audience of readers would have felt alienated, since what was imparted was uncommon knowledge for most. What a job he did indeed! Example of what not to do, yes, think so, lol.
Carlos Castaneda - Nagual LoneWolf - 11-09-2010
I believe CC did burn from the fire within. Can you expand on this statement A siris?
Carlos Castaneda - Littlepaw - 11-09-2010
I was lead to believe that CC died a normal death. That's not my preference either. It is only more recently that i have come across folks who say he did burn from within. I know that burning from within is some kind of energetic alignment but I don't really know what this means. For me I am left wondering about my sources. Am i to beleive that CC dies of liver cancer and was cremated? If I do then perhaps there is an option to leave the body behind and continue on?? Or was CC's death rubbish and if so why was it reported to be the case? I am in the dark.
When I look at the facts, there aren't many. I know the effects of being a warrior are more than hard to beleive, I live them, so I have no problem trusting other warriors who say they actually dream with Don Juan who would probably himself know what happened to CC. But I have next to zero experience dreaming and am wondering weather just to take your word for it. Who are you again?
Carlos Castaneda - Littlepaw - 11-11-2010
My apologies,
I read this back and it seems quite rude.
Carlos Castaneda - Wei Shan Yang - 11-12-2010
Could Castaneda have burned from the fire within?, absolutely! Was he an impeccable nagual? Very possibly so. He had a task and fulfilled it.
Carlos Castaneda - shamanka - 11-12-2010
Maybe, he walked out before death and another took his place to die in the physical.Being a walk in myself....and having had this experience now 13 times in one lifetime...it is a distinct possibility.
Carlos Castaneda - Littlepaw - 11-12-2010
What is a walk in Shamaka?
Carlos Castaneda - shamanka - 11-14-2010
Personally, I have 'died' or walked out and walked in again, several times this lifetime.
My being has extracted itself from the web into the dark space and chosen again, without too much disruption to the vessel. It caused all sorts of changes in this creative playground but each time the struggle to hold ones own ‘hum’ has been easier as you shed the emotional addictions of the last consciousness.
It is hard to explain this process to you, it has happened for me in several ways.
The 1st time was 6 hours after birth, the 2nd time was when I was in my cot as a toddler. The 3rd time was when I moved home at 5 years old. The 4th time was when I was six and prostrated myself on the ground in my garden, like a nun.
The 5th time was when I was eight and I was introduced to my Nagual. The 6th time was when I was 10 and I experienced a 'burning bush/elohim being' and I absorbed it. The 7th time was when I was 15, at I had another burning bush experience. (cleansing this time), The 8th time is when I was 20 and I asked to die after being heart broken by someone.
The 9th time was when I was 26, after my children went to live with their father and I asked to die. The 10th time was when I was living with a partner and it happened overnight, to such an effect that I didn’t know, who he was in the morning. It was the end of that relationship. The 11th time was a conscious dying process where I said consciously goodbye to everything in my reality over a three week period. The 12th time was when I suffered an entopic pregnancy and I knew before the operation, that I would try and follow the baby out of my body. I aspirated in theatre and they had to suck out my lungs. I was on oxygen and nebulisers for five days.
The most recent 13th time was in september (2010) when i went through the whole process consciously, as if a 'novice', both the purging of the internal, the past, the annihilation of my marriage, my future, my created creams, my contracts....everything...the internal /external became the nothing. i am just starting from scratch again. i was told that this was done this way so that i could assist others in the process.I wrote the whole thing down.
You get the picture. I am not the spirit that was born to my earth parents, I am not even the spirit that gave birth to any of my 4 children. I am not the spirit that was a child and I am not the spirit that married my husband. I am renewed each time to make or continue choices I have made before. Each time however, I had either asked for it to happen, or knew it was necessary to happen in some way.
so why does it happen?.it could be a negotiated swap...a soul/spirit comes down and wants out,so a swap is negotiated and made. this i have done a few times (the younger walk outs) this is the possible way Carlos slipped out and a spirit chose to die for him.(this may explain confusion/illness/normal death/personality changes before he went...i dont know the stories..and i don't really care...Carlos is still about for those connected to him anyway...as is any other 'consciousness')
i have also been told that this will happen to me when my vessel dies, that before the event on the physical, a willing and loving spirit will inhabit my body to do that bit for 'me'... so i can.."slip out whole..consciousness intact" lol.
i used to leave a note in my diary as a teen in case i 'spontaneously combusted' it was a real possibility to me. i was so concerned that my family would find only my shoes and search for me for years...that i wrote a note explaining what i had done in there, as i knew they would probably search and read it after my 'disappearance'.
I have been told that now,for me, it is part of the bigger picture contract, that humanity in its evolution requires new energies to be anchored in the physical and some vessels are used for this purpose. A lot of my work is on the Galactic level. and every time it needs to happen, the lower end of the spectrum is dropped (emotional and physical attachments) the spirit incoming, has to search the vessel in cellular memory, to know 'how' the vassel is supposed or is associated with things and people in the external...and then chooses again (often new) associations, that will assist with it's particular purpose here on earth. for example...relationships get dropped if they no longer serve the highest good.
i trust this makes sense. as i have said before i am learning to express my 'being' from the nothing, on this physical level...so questions assist me to do that...if you have any...feel free.....it assists me in being the best i can be...xxx
Shamanka
xx
Carlos Castaneda - serendipity - 11-14-2010
Hi Shamanka,
as, you appear to be inviting questions, and state that, questions assist you in being the best you can be, I'll take you at your word.
In the above post, you say that, you can remember "dying" when you were 6 hours old, and also, as a toddler, a 5 year old, a 6 year old, etc. I find this, very puzzling.
I am aware that, Re-birthers claim to be able to take the process so far that, they can remember birth trauma, and everything afterwards, and, they also seem to believe that, memory is stored in the body, not, the mind.
DJM seems to agree that, memory is stored in the body, but, he claims that, at the moment of death, these memories are released.
Despite claiming to have died, many times, you appear to retain memories of the events which occured to the previous "spirit" which, inhabited your body. By "spirit", I'm assuming, you mean awareness, yes?
Do you , see awareness as separate from the body? If so, how is it that, the body is aware,(which, it is, very much,), even when our awareness is off somewhere else, Dreaming?
You, yourself, state that, you purged/annihilated everything from your past, and, you are starting from scratch, yet, you still, retain the memories of the past. This, appears contradictory, to me.
Are you saying that, the body retains the memories, even though, the "spirit" leaves? Is this, the "cellular memory, you refer to? This, appears to contradict DJM's description of death.
If so, how can a "spirit" be said to be an individual, if, it retains no memories of individual experience?
Does it, "photocopy" them, before it leaves?
Perhaps, it is your use of the term "died", that is confusing me? As I understand it, "death" involves the cessation of any activity or processes within the body, that pertain to life. "Cellular " death, (to borrow your term,), is said to take at least, twenty minutes, after which, no recovery is possible.
Are you using the term "died" metaphorically, as in a "shamanic death"?
It seems to me, you must be, as your body is still alive.
On another tack,....................you say that, you are a "full spectrum Nagual".
In CC'swritings, DJM repeatedly states that, "a Nagual never lets anyone know, he is in charge".
In other words, anonymity is a prerequisite. He reiterates this point, many times, therefore, I take it that, he feels it to be fundamental. After all, using such a title, even in the privacy of one's own thoughts, is hardly conducive to the eradication of self importance. Using it in communications with others, is fraught with pitfalls, and risks opening up a whole can of worms, even if, it is an accurate description.
You say. "your knowing" tells you, you are a Nagual. If so, how is it, "your Knowing" only knew, after CC wrote his books, and popularised the term? No-one mentioned "Naguals" until CC made the term known in that context. It was an anthropological term, reputed to mean, the spirit animal of an American "shaman" (or, whatever term you prefer, as "shaman" is a Sami word,), yet, these days, it seems, we have "Naguals" coming out of the woodwork.
This question is, of course, relevant to anyone who claims to be a "Nagual", (preferably, with the endorsement of an old Native American medicine man, or some such,). Claiming to have been told by "the spirit", or "direct knowing" is a more sophisticated version, of course, and less obviously questionable, as it is impossible to prove, one way, or the other.
How come, no-one appears on thses forums and says, "hi, I'm an inconsequential piece of pond-life, and I do,nt have a fucking clue what all this is about, but, I'd like, to find out."? At least then, they would be in good company.
Instead, we have a seemingly endless stream of people claiming to be "Naguals", despite, DJM saying, "Naguals" are rare individuals.
You say that "a lot of my work, is on the Galactic level".
Apart from the apparent grandiosity of this phrase, it calls to mind, the adventures of Jean Luc Picard!
Would you mind explaining, exactly what, you mean by this phrase?
What is this work, and with/for whom, do you do it? Where and when, do you do it, and how?
Anyway, thats enough questions, for now.
I have an enquiring mind, therefore, I am naturally sceptical. To confuse that, with cynicism, would be inaccurate. I seek to find answers, not, to dismiss. Anyone who makes claims, must expect to have to verify them.
BTW, thats a nice little piece of woodland in your pics. I could,nt help wondering why, you had green boughs hanging to dry. Unavoidable pruning? I wonder if, the trees would agree? Trees, do,nt like that, though, they do,nt mind, too much, if you burn dead wood.
P.S.: If any of my questions or statements seem stupid, thats because, I AM stupid! I would appreciate it if, you would humour me, with a reply.
Carlos Castaneda - shamanka - 11-16-2010
i showed you all the levels...when you came into my energy field...i trust that you didn't wish me to come out of 'being' to explain it all to you!
maybe you can breathe in the experiences for yourself now......have a wonderful time.
btw, i dont think trees like being the hosts of words either...but sometimes they gracefully cooperate .
Carlos Castaneda - serendipity - 11-20-2010
Hmmmmm,
Your response, leaves me, none the wiser.
Perhaps, you responded more fully, in the infrared, and/or ultraviolet?
As I see it, the purpose of these forums is communication, however, this is thwarted if, the contributors use terms others cannot understand. Could we please, have a rational discussion?
I'm a simpleton, and cannot get my head around your obscure New Age abstractions.
If, you do,nt wish to "come out of being, to explain it all", thats ok. Direct proof is a more than acceptable substitute, (assuming, you are capable of such,).
Not sure, what you mean, by trees gracefully co-operating as the hosts of words. As far as I know, no-one asks thier permission before cutting them down to make paper, and then, scrawling on it. Fortunately, we do,nt have to do that, as we have computer screens to host our scrawlings.
Carlos Castaneda - dreamways - 02-14-2011
shamanka wrote:i showed you all the levels...when you came into my energy field...i trust that you didn't wish me to come out of 'being' to explain it all to you!
maybe you can breathe in the experiences for yourself now......have a wonderful time.
btw, i dont think trees like being the hosts of words either...but sometimes they gracefully cooperate .
OK, even lujan makes more sense than you. How you didn't find your way to parallelperception.yuku.com first I'll never know. Seriously, those are your people.
Carlos Castaneda - scout1 - 02-17-2011
http://www.carloscastaneda.it/Los-Voladores-1.htm
Carlos Castaneda - Guest - 02-17-2011
shamanka wrote
ersonally, I have 'died' or walked out and walked in again, several times this lifetime. My being has extracted itself from the web into the dark space and chosen again, without too much disruption to the vessel. It caused all sorts of changes in this creative playground but each time the struggle to hold ones own ‘hum’ has been easier as you shed the emotional addictions of the last consciousness.
It is hard to explain this process to you, it has happened for me in several ways.
The 1st time was 6 hours after birth, the 2nd time was when I was in my cot as a toddler. The 3rd time was when I moved home at 5 years old. The 4th time was when I was six and prostrated myself on the ground in my garden, like a nun.
The 5th time was when I was eight and I was introduced to my Nagual. The 6th time was when I was 10 and I experienced a 'burning bush/elohim being' and I absorbed it. The 7th time was when I was 15, at I had another burning bush experience. (cleansing this time), The 8th time is when I was 20 and I asked to die after being heart broken by someone.
The 9th time was when I was 26, after my children went to live with their father and I asked to die. The 10th time was when I was living with a partner and it happened overnight, to such an effect that I didn’t know, who he was in the morning. It was the end of that relationship. The 11th time was a conscious dying process where I said consciously goodbye to everything in my reality over a three week period. The 12th time was when I suffered an entopic pregnancy and I knew before the operation, that I would try and follow the baby out of my body. I aspirated in theatre and they had to suck out my lungs. I was on oxygen and nebulisers for five days.
The most recent 13th time was in september (2010) when i went through the whole process consciously, as if a 'novice', both the purging of the internal, the past, the annihilation of my marriage, my future, my created creams, my contracts....everything...the internal /external became the nothing. i am just starting from scratch again. i was told that this was done this way so that i could assist others in the process.I wrote the whole thing down.
You get the picture. I am not the spirit that was born to my earth parents, I am not even the spirit that gave birth to any of my 4 children. I am not the spirit that was a child and I am not the spirit that married my husband. I am renewed each time to make or continue choices I have made before. Each time however, I had either asked for it to happen, or knew it was necessary to happen in some way.
so why does it happen?.it could be a negotiated swap...a soul/spirit comes down and wants out,so a swap is negotiated and made. this i have done a few times (the younger walk outs) this is the possible way Carlos slipped out and a spirit chose to die for him.(this may explain confusion/illness/normal death/personality changes before he went...i dont know the stories..and i don't really care...Carlos is still about for those connected to him anyway...as is any other 'consciousness')
i have also been told that this will happen to me when my vessel dies, that before the event on the physical, a willing and loving spirit will inhabit my body to do that bit for 'me'... so i can.."slip out whole..consciousness intact" lol.
i used to leave a note in my diary as a teen in case i 'spontaneously combusted' it was a real possibility to me. i was so concerned that my family would find only my shoes and search for me for years...that i wrote a note explaining what i had done in there, as i knew they would probably search and read it after my 'disappearance'.
I have been told that now,for me, it is part of the bigger picture contract, that humanity in its evolution requires new energies to be anchored in the physical and some vessels are used for this purpose. A lot of my work is on the Galactic level. and every time it needs to happen, the lower end of the spectrum is dropped (emotional and physical attachments) the spirit incoming, has to search the vessel in cellular memory, to know 'how' the vassel is supposed or is associated with things and people in the external...and then chooses again (often new) associations, that will assist with it's particular purpose here on earth. for example...relationships get dropped if they no longer serve the highest good.
i trust this makes sense. as i have said before i am learning to express my 'being' from the nothing, on this physical level...so questions assist me to do that...if you have any...feel free.....it assists me in being the best i can be...xxx
Shamanka
xxGiven that all you say above is true, I am extremely curious as to why and how you find yourself here on this forum and not in a temple or palace with many followers who could no doubt benefit from the energy, healing and awakenings you could spark.
Carlos Castaneda - scout1 - 02-18-2011
The Art of Reality
Bruce Wagner remembers Carlos Castaneda
October 1, 2007
http://www.tricycle.com/feature/art-reality
Carlos Castaneda - Guest - 02-20-2011
RaINbow DIAMOND UNICORN wrote:"Don't underestimate your resources. Everything the spirit has put inside us has a transcendent meaning. It means dreams are there to be used; if it were not so, they would not exist. The techniques I have described to you are not speculations; I have personally checked them out. The ART of DREAMING is my message to people, but nobody pays any attention!"
I don't know that I would agree that 'nobody pays any attention'!
(Doesn't sound like Carlos to me)