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5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-02-2010
4th gate is seeing. fifth gate is emptiness, and everything is a power object. part of a larger spiral which is part of it's own reflection in emptiness and in form.
every action engages part of infinity. choose which parts you will put your energy and power to be part of, and which parts you will set aside if given a choice.
at the fifth gate hundreds of people may be the same person. it's a thing of unavoidable perspective. also at the fifth gate one can shapeshift and control others' perceptions. effectively.
made this post just to contribute to the new section. these things can have a hard time getting started. especially when seeded with a bunch of stuff like dreamways forum. everything is posted by him no offense dreamways. it's just the way it is.
so id like to prompt anybody to share their experiences and descriptions of the gates. where are you?
what do you like to do with it?
5th gate - you? - Eilias123 - 10-09-2010
I seem to use the second gate a lot. I used to voice my intent to change dreams, but that would often cause a blacking out and then winding up in the next dream with lost lucidity. Now I use Archetype control for the second gate. I think of the place i want to go and step through a mirror, door, portal etc. what's great about this that if one archetype fails, just use another one until it works.
5th gate - you? - Nagual LoneWolf - 10-11-2010
where am I? I am where you want me to be for I am formless and I am part of the spirit which sees there is nothing but intent and will and energy.
5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-11-2010
so... what are the gates?
5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-14-2010
what im seeing hearing is that the fifth and sixth gates are shapeshifting. the 7th gate is death and total freedom.
id be interested in discussing the fifth and sixth gate.
think i have mastered the fifth gate. or gotten past. but still need some practice. like it doesn't come naturally yet.
though i do agree with youre kind gesture of being wherever i want you to be. it's just not practical in terms of answering about the gates. since this is a dreaming subsection. might as well throw away the whole subforum because formlessness rules. actually after writing that i realize formlessness does in fact rule. so thanks for the reminder. just trying to start conversation.
i suppose its a useless endeavor as we are aiming to shut off the internal dialog rather than engage it.
this is incidentally how i got banned from lujans forum the first time i was there as iiop. asked them about who was formless, who is seeing the eye. got warned. then challenged that warning with. whats up with you kinda thing. got banned. its all good
but its true. formless. that means you are seeing that eye in various places right?
and what kind of dream knowledge can we share? like when you said that you are exactly where i want you to be. you are right. and that is useful because i can see you clearly.
so lets share that power and see.
betting the sixth gate is waking up somewhere else in this world.
now back to you. where do you stand? still working on the hands in dreaming? i sure do. recap everytime seems to take me right back to the beginning
5th gate - you? - dreamways - 10-14-2010
The first four gates of dreaming are described in detail by Carlos Castaneda in The Art of Dreaming. After the fourth gate comes the "Sorcerer's Crossing," as described by Taisha Abelar in the book by the same name. They don't call it a gate of dreaming, but it is where you find your path basically, or your nagual more precisely. The best that I can explain the gates of dreaming is that it is the opening of the seven chakras of the dreaming body, and therefore you could look at dreaming practices as kind of a "dream yoga," where you move past the physical body to the etheric plane and start working on the dreaming body as a discrete being. When dreaming has come full circle and you use the dreaming body to walk the physical body around, the exact opposite of how we lucid dream, that is the seventh gate of dreaming. At gate one, we use the physical mind to control the dreaming body, and at the seventh gate we use the dreaming mind to control the physical body. You know you are at the seventh gate of dreaming, when you try to wake up but instead you keep dreaming but can see from the dream through the eyes of your physical body. It feels and appears very strange but also familiar, even though night looks like day and vice versa, and you can see through objects such as walls. In this state, you can see all types of energy, such as energy bodies, the assemblage point, inorganic beings and flyers. Just keep lucid dreaming the Carlos wrote about and it happens naturally.
5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-15-2010
thanks dreamways. are you there?
thats funny because the phrase 'sorcerer's crossing' has been coming a lot lately. ive been feeling that way. animals have been saying " remember - youre the nagual so&so". and the seventh gate is what im looking for. it sounds sublime. 'try to wake up'?
5th gate - you? - dreamways - 10-15-2010
another spirit wrote:thanks dreamways. are you there?
thats funny because the phrase 'sorcerer's crossing' has been coming a lot lately. ive been feeling that way. animals have been saying " remember - youre the nagual so&so". and the seventh gate is what im looking for. it sounds sublime. 'try to wake up'?
I was able to cross all the gates of dreaming while Castaneda was still alive, and I really credit his energy being responsible for it. My dreaming took a big hit after he died, and I even had a dream with him on the very day of his death, but I didn't realize the significance of it until months later when they finally told everyone that he was gone. I didn't even cross the first gate until after I met Taisha Abelar in person, and it really felt like I was being carried by the energy of Castaneda's party more than anything else. I think that people have to work a lot harder on the gates of dreaming if they don't have a nagual's energy to help them along like that, so, finding a nagual teacher is a good idea if you can manage it somehow.
5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-15-2010
especially the dream yoga. do this a lot. you?
5th gate - you? - dreamways - 10-15-2010
another spirit wrote:especially the dream yoga. do this a lot. you?
I'm basically saying that what the Art of Dreaming is about could be interpreted as a "dream yoga." At this stage, I usually dream in either one of four locations, 1. with Don Juan in an amber world, where tells me things about my tonal, 2. with a nagual named Maximilian, where I learn about the flyers, 3. deep in the inorganic world, where I go for energy, or lastly, 4. in a world full of giant insects where the death defiers have a camp. I focus on one message or lesson or exercise at a time that either DJ or M give me, but it is purposely not exciting.
5th gate - you? - dreamways - 10-15-2010
I wanted to add that the amount that I dream and the intensity of those dreams has fallen off quite a bit since I got diabetes, so it is probably a good idea to focus on one's health if you want to make progress with dreaming in general.
5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-15-2010
i recall, yes, don juan saying that only with the confidence of one without a care in the world can one succeed at dreaming. so *** health. how you gonna get it back without dream power
5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-15-2010
of course what i mean is heart will make you strong again. sorry about your diabetes. and thank you for your encouragement. and btw, i have enjoyed quite a bit from your forum.
5th gate - you? - dreamways - 10-17-2010
another spirit wrote:of course what i mean is heart will make you strong again. sorry about your diabetes. and thank you for your encouragement. and btw, i have enjoyed quite a bit from your forum.
thanks. as i've wrote about before, i've discovered that all sorcerers are actually inorganic beings merged with a human being to form a hybrid. there are also many other types of inorganic beings, most of which don't merge with anything, but many do, and their 'homes' can be either plants or animals. scouts are a type of inorganic being that is supposed to merge with a tree, but sometimes they accidentally combine with a human, and that is what i am. scouts find all aspects of dreaming very easy and they don't have to try very hard to do anything, but they are not really sorcerers unless they can be switched over. in dreaming, don juan introduced me to another nagual named maximillian, and he is moving my ap toward the human-sorceric spectrum, which is totally new for me. the first thing that i discovered was that the energetic parasites called flyers or voladores, etc, are the main problem facing regular human sorcerers, whereas scouts don't have that to deal with but instead have to face being a slave to the death defiers. so, it is always something, as they say. nagualism is not really meant for scouts, and is designed for sorcerers, which is ironic since that is the subject of my forum. but, now i am getting to live as a sorcerer finally and i hope that what i write about will be even more relevant than before. just for the record, normal sorcery is more fun than scout sorcery, now that i am able to compare the two, it is more about this world in a good way. i didn't have that in the scout world of dreaming, it was very non-human, but i never even noticed that it was missing anything until now.
5th gate - you? - another spirit - 10-18-2010
true that flier stuff. i have perhaps 10 commonly used allies i work with. hell yes. glad to hear you are back on the team i did wonder about your scouting.
5th gate - you? - fabs - 07-13-2011
Hi, I think I have crossed the third gate, but have no way to really know for sure (apart from comparing to what Castaneda wrote in the Art of Dreaming). I feel the energy body back, still dreaming, during the day but not completely there 100% yet....I have met my body in dreaming many times and meditated in front of it to transfer energy and connect smoothly. That was facilitated by a Nagual in Dreaming and since then I kept on doing it on my own in dreaming practice even last night. I have practiced some bits relevant to fourth gate, like the twins position, which I already performed during the second gate, and I see energy regularly in dreaming since the first gate, but not always and not continuously. I do ese energy every day, daytime, but not at every single item I focus on. The voice in dreaming seems now to come more from my heart but this is not always either. Any suggestions on what to do next? Thanks
5th gate - you? - Guest - 08-21-2019