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"I" be an IB? - Archaos - 01-03-2013
Greetings!
This thread is an enquiry into the inorganic nature of the ego, which is fairly synonymous with the tonal, as I will endeavor to show.
Some quotes from Sri Ramana Maharshi:
Ego is non-existent, otherwise you would be two instead of one – you the ego and you the Self. You are a single, indivisible whole. (Ramana Maharshi, GR, 54.)
The ego or separate soul is a concept. God, the world, the mind, desires, action, sorrow and all other things are all concepts. (Ramana Maharshi, HRG, 15.)
The ego-self does not exist at all. (Ramana Maharshi, GR, 54.)
The ego and the mind are the same. The ego is the root-thought from which all other thoughts arise. (Ramana Maharshi, TWSRM, Question 347.)
--- I also like to equate mind with tonal and 1st attention, as did DJ. Although then DJ also mentions the authentic mind which relates
to the 2nd attention. But if I should say mind without the word authentic, I mean the common 1st attention inventory. ----
It comes into being equipped with a form, and as long as it retains a form it endures. Having a form, it feeds and grows big. But if you investigate it, this evil spirit, which has no form of its own, relinquishes its grip on form and takes to flight. (Ramana Maharshi, FVR, verse 25.)
The ego is described as having three bodies, the gross, the subtle and the casual, but that is only for the purposes of analytical exposition. If the method of enquiry were to depend on the ego’s form, you may take it that any enquiry would become altogether impossible, because the forms the ego may assume are legion. Therefore, for purposes of Jnana-vichara, you have to proceed on the basis that the ego has but one form, namely that of Aham-vritti. (Ramana Maharshi, MG, 83.)
--- Aham-vritti means "I thought" ---
The mind is merely thoughts. Of all thoughts, the thought “I” is the root. (Therefore) the mind is only the thought “I.” (Ramana Maharshi, WHO, 24.)
Of all the thoughts that arise in the mind, the “I” thought is the first. It is only after the rise of this, that the other thoughts arise. It is after the appearance of the first personal pronoun that the second and third personal pronouns appear; without the first personal pronoun there will not be the second and third. (Ramana Maharshi, WHO, 13.)
--- often when I speak of ego I do not just say "ego" because that makes it sound like it is a thing or has existence. So I usually have to
give a more complicated version like "the idea of the separate ego self". This is why I do that - ego is an idea, not a thing. It has no organic
substance, but only inorganic. One might think of theosophical "thought-forms". This lack of material substance makes it no less burdensome.
Ruminating on a "negative" thought all day can drain your energy. Well, the I-thought is the most draining of all without most people even
being aware of it. The primary inorganic being you "need" to "worry" about is your own idea of the separate identity ego self. Resolve that
and you don't have to worry about any others. IBs are especially attracted to "you", the I-thought, not your physical being. In dreaming,
they interact with "you", the inorganic being, not your physical body. Likewise, if you want their energy, your inorganic being is what must
acquire it, your energy body. The fact is, this is happening all the time between the ego-IBs of people on this planet. Remember the
Celestine Prophecy?:
(I don't know anything about this website - it just had the best description of the first page of options)
http://www.stoptherobbery.com/Drama.html
Let's do a few more Ramana quotes:
Although the concept of “I”-ness or “I-am”-ness is by usage known as Aham-vritti , it is not really a vritti like the other vrittis of the mind. Because unlike the other vrittis which have no essential inter-relation, the Aham-vritti is equally and essentially related to each and every vritti of the mind. Without the Aham-vritti there can be no other vritti, but the Aham-vritti can subsist by itself without depending on any other vritti of the mind. The Aham-vritti is therefore fundamentally different from other vrittis.
So then, the search for the Source of the Aham-vritti is not merely the search for the basis of one of the forms of the ego but for the very Source itself from which arises the “I-am”-ness. In other words, the quest for and the realization of the Source of the ego in the form of Aham-vritti necessarily implies the transcendence of the ego in every one of its possible forms. (Ramana Maharshi, MG, 84.)
--- sometimes i like to liken these to dimensions, because i have seen that. For example, the vrittis are lines in the plane that is the I-thought/Aham-vritti.
I am not being specific here. Any dimension will do. One could just as well say vrittis are points in the line that is the I-thought dimension...
We could then take Gurdjieffs 'many "I"s' teaching, or look at neuro-nets if so inclined, and say these are the lines that make a plane called the tonal or Mitote. etc.
Speaking of Gurdjieff, I remember him saying in "Search of the Miraculous" about the kinds of food we need... we can for months without food, days or weeks (?)
without water, minutes without air, but not one second without impressions. We should understand that of course as the food and existence of the I-thought...
the I-thought and its impressions co-arise. This is why it is dependant on impressions, which is simply another word for vrittis, "thought waves". Another
connection, the Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali begin with a definition of yoga: "Yoga is the cessation of thought waves (vrittis) in the mind. Then one resides
in their true nature." Some other interpretations:
[HA]: Hariharananda Aranya
[IT]: I. K. Taimni
[VH]: Vyasa Houston
[BM]: Barbara Miller
[SS]: Swami Satchidananda
[SP]: Swami Prabhavananda
[SV]: Swami Vivekananda
[HA]: Yoga Is The Suppression Of The Modifications Of The Mind
[IT]: Yoga is the inhibition of the modifications of the mind.
[VH]: Yoga is the nirodha (process of ending) of the vrrti (definitions) of citta (field of consciousness.
[BM]: Yoga is the cessation of the turnings of thought.
[SS]: The restraint of the modifications of the mind-stuff is Yoga.
[SP]: Yoga is the control of thought-waves in the mind.
[SV]: Yoga is restraining the mind – stuff (Chitta) from taking various forms (Vrittis).
[HA]: Then The Seer Abides In Itself
[IT]: Then the Seer is established in his own essential nature.
[VH]: Then, the abidance of (I) the seer (drastr) in (my) own nature (svarupa)
[BM]: When thought ceases, the spirit stands in it’s true identity as observer to the world.
[SS]: Then the Seer [Self] abides in His own nature.
[SP]: Then man abides in his real nature.
[SV]: At that time (the time of concentration) the seer (Purusha) rests in his own (unmodified) state.
[HA]: At Other Times The Seer Appears To Assume The Form Of The Modifications Of The Mind
[IT]: In other states there is assimilation (of the Seer) with the modifications (of the mind)
[VH]: Otherwise there is conformity to the vrrti-definitions.
[BM]: Otherwise, the observer identifies with the turnings of thought.
[SS]: At other times [the Self appears to] assume the forms of mental modifications.
[SP]: At other times, when he is not in the state of yoga, man remains identified with the thought-waves in the mind.
[SV]: At other times (other than that of concentration) the seer is identified with the modifications.
http://yogasutrastudy.info/yoga-sutra-t ... 1-01-1-20/
--- Following, we see Ramana too admits of the cessation of thinking, the stopping of the internal dialogue, as the way (to the 2nd attention).
This should be very clear for everyone trying to define the first attention and second attention in a hundred different ways. Seers are pretty
unanimous on this: ---
Every man admits his own existence and does not need a mirror to prove it to him. Existence is awareness, which is the negation of ignorance. Then why does man suffer? Because he imagines himself other than what he in reality is, e.g., the body, this, that, and the other – “I am Gopal, son of Parashuram, father of Natesan,” etc. In reality he is the intelligent “I-am” alone, stripped of qualities and superimpositions, of names and forms. … He must hold onto that existence [that he sees in dreamless sleep], that lone being – Kaivalya – even when he is in the waking state. The man of wisdom simply is. “I-Am-That-I-Am” sums up the whole Truth. The method is summed up by “Be still and know that I am God.” What does stillness mean? Cessation of thinking, which is the universe of forms, colours, qualities, time, space, all concepts and percepts whatever. (Ramana Maharshi, GR, 55.)
---If you want to read more, I just found this page which is pretty good on relating the idea of self to self-reflection, etc:
http://www.beezone.com/dailyreading/min ... _self.html
The Ramana quotes came from this page:
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/light11 ... amana.html
So to conclude this post, I want to stress that the most important, and truly the only, IB you can really do something about to liberate yourself
is "you", by which i of course mean the I-thought, the sense of separate self as identity or ego. Next to the true Self, this is the closest "thing" to you,
so you don't even have to go anywhere or into dreaming (though that works too - essentially, it is the dreaming attention that resolves the ego. I'm
just acknowledging that some people think dreaming is in dreams... that dreaming and dreaming attention can be seen as different by some).
And if you really want the big picture, you are the Eagle. When the Eagle's beak consumes "your" awareness, it is you consuming you. When DJ says
nobody is doing anything to anyone, much less to a warrior, think of that.
"Time is the essence of attention; the Eagle's emanations are made out of time; and properly, when one enters into any aspect of the other self, one is becoming acquainted with time.
The wheel of time is like a state of heightened awareness which is part of the other self, as the left side awareness is part of the self of everyday life."
How is it you consuming you? Something I mean to get to in the wheel of time thread... the whole of consciousness, existence, dimensions, is this
fractal holographic enfolding and unfolding. Just as the I-thought is self-reflection/folding, it is resolved by unfolding into the 2nd attention.
As Dok says, there are lots of "degrees" (sorry, probably paraphrasing - don't remember the exact word) in the second attention. These degrees
and levels or sublevels are foldings. Anyway, when the Eagle's beak consumes tonal awareness, this is simply a description of levels "below" unfolding
into levels "above". All these levels are you. You could not exist if it were not so. This I have seen. See for yourself. You do not exist separately or
independantly from the Source. Nothing does. It's complicated. In a way of talking we can say dimensions are independant, as we say the ego has no
existence. But at the same time, we cannot refute the fact that all consciousness, whether form or substance, emanates from the One, the Source, from
infinite into finite. It's a bit of a paradox, but paradox is home for a warrior. (general comment - not assuming anything, just talking.)
So do whatever you want, of course, but I'd suggest you know yourself as the path of freedom instead of trying to know IBs as if they are something
other than you, which is more liken to old sorcerers. It's all good fun. I'm just pointing out a difference/distinction/definition. I don't judge anyone...
not in the sense that people normally think of judgement as calling something good or bad or right or wrong. For example, measuring a table as
3 feet and 4 inches is not a judgement - it's just measuring. There can certainly be a judgemental intention behind measuring...
I'll shut up now. For a space.
Thanks for reading.
"I" be an IB? - Guest - 08-21-2019