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The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-10-2018
Simon & Garfunkel: The Sound Of Silence (1964)
Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
‘Neath the halo of a streetlamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
No one dare
Disturb the sound of silence
“Fools” said I, “You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you”
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said “The words of the prophets
Are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sounds of silence”
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-10-2018
What do you think this song is about?
I'm gonna type a bit of what I see in it in the next post...
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-10-2018
This song reminds me of Sen. With that as the AP, I find the song to be about the curse of the enlightened. Those who have the gift of sight, have the curse of sight. To see the raging beauty of life means seeing also the raging destruction.
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-10-2018
Love your interpretation Pixie, very poetic
.I'm gonna go into various aspects that I saw or was reminded of thnx to the song. Plus try to link it to the words a bit and such... Where to start?
1) Communication
The meaning I guess everyone can identify is: society's (people's) inability to communicate and connect with others.
I read somewhere that one of the singers commented on how it is about a world not willing to love (people no longer knowing how to love each other) and the lack of communication on an emotional level.
But what can a person who does certain sorceric practices see in there?
2) Dreaming
The song is about the insight we get through dreaming. Seeing in dreaming. About how dreams speak and show us truths.(This can link also to seers having visions/dreams.)
There are a couple of things that remind me of a certain state of dreaming/seeing. The way the sounds and lights are described/work in this world of the song. the way sound is different and the halo of the light.
Even the typical entering into a dream is somehow similar. At the beginning is darkness... and silence. Then we enter into a dream bubble, as we approach we start to pick up some sensory input. And quite often one could say that the dream world we enter has grown from a seed in our mind. Or at least incorporates these.
Sometimes also when I leave a dream (bubble) I am first in a transition place of darkness before I enter the waking world.
3)Dreaming/Seeing/ Prophecy
Say the poet in the song is compelled to share a prophecy, but the people have stopped listening long ago. And they do not feel the need for seers and prophets, they are fine with the watered-down version of the neon lights.
He goes to his friend darkness so he can talk to it possibly because no one is interested in the dreams/vision (even outside of the people who were not willing to listen to him in the dream).
One can find some of the prophecies and messages of the old poets/prophets underground. One needs to journey to the lower world (core-shamanism anyone?)
. The tenement halls I link to communities - places where people actually were able to form communities - possibly on the fringes of the world where the people that the poet sees are. These kinds of clues of how to get to realness in the world can be seen all around us - even in the most unlikely of places - on the screens (flashing signs), and they are flashing at those who are willing to wake up - though most of the time people do not act on these or do not notice them. But the poet who is awake can see them.
Plus one could go and say the song itself is the prophecy of what the world is coming to...
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-11-2018
4) Art is not as 'alive' as it could (should) be
(I am assuming that this one might be the hardest to spot in the song, so I am going to do a bit of linking to the song parts where I see/was reminded of this)
In stanza 2 we have a flashing artificial light. And this light is there at night and touches the silence.
In stanza 3. We have a situation where many people talk without speaking and hear without listing. And write songs that other voices don't share. -- here I see the link to art
We could link this to the medium of say TV. People watching monitors, say TV in their living rooms or phone screens on the street etc, being silent. The sounds from these monitors is the only thing that touches the silence that the spectators are in. (I am also reminded of the way we traditionally are when we are in the theatre or listening to a classical concert, where everyone needs to be as quiet as possible vs. how people used to experience and share art in the past - laughing and talking and throwing stuff at artists lol)
In stanza 3 the song continues "People talking without speaking / People hearing without listening"
there is a difference here between talking and speaking, between hearing and listening. How is that possible? And here we shift to the point I want to make with art. Say there is a movie on, the actors talk, but they are removed from us the viewers (plus ofc they are playing roles that are not real). They are not speaking to US even though they are talking at us. And we are hearing it but there is no need to listen cause we are not in a dialogue/communication situation with these actors on TV. It is passive therefore and the audience is passive (can hear it without listening). Do I mean the audience should talk and interfere in the performance? not necessarily thought there are such types of acting too. But if you are part of a live performance of any kind, music, poetry, theatre etc, you are there part of the atmosphere and you shape it too and, most importantly, if the artist is accessible one can share impressions and experiences with them. This is something that was accessible to communities and the performances they had. Now in our global world, we just have screens and we are removed from the actual most living part of the art. It is still nice but it is much nicer to be a bigger part of it. And there is still the option of those kinds of performances where say someone sings a song and another one tells a tale while keeping the frequency/feeling of the song just transforming it into a story, and then another one can dance it out, or whatever.
Similarly "People writing songs that voices never share" is about how we cannot share the songs with the artists because they are removed from us. But ofc it is also about how it gets so removed that the song never makes it anywhere anymore. As this link between the author and actual people petrifies and dies.
Stanza 4 goes on:
“Fools” said I, “You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you”
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence"
The people prefer the removed situations on their monitor to an actual person who wants to have an active interaction with them.
Link to shamanism, as mentioned above: I was made aware of how important it is to have art that is alive in the moment close to you, in a way that you can interact with the poets or singers etc. How the songs and movies and such we see are disconnected from us and from a dynamically active sharing situation. We cannot give our opinion to the author or communicate with him or her. It could happen that we can write a review or something but it might never reach the author etc.
Another level of interpretation could be linked to how the people he sees are actually like the actors on say tv that speak lines, hear lines, and don't express actual real things (they have stopped to be capable of actual interaction due to how they get their art). And it is also why he cannot interact with them.
Anyway, the spectators become hollow, cause there is no reason to interact with a screen, or way to interact with that art.
plus, on a side note, there is the neon god kinda thing, like those are the gods people listen to and follow. Whatever is on the screen (linked to how people prefer to eat up the news instead of actually looking around them to make their own opinions)
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-11-2018
With the insights you gleaned from the song, I'm curious how someone of great depth and emotion should engage a shallow and disconnected (from spirit) physical reality. What measures should be taken to survive spiritually in such a dualistic reality?
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-11-2018
If we look at the song... the way the poet deals with it does make some sense... S/He has chats with his/her old friend darkness. Does that remind you of anyone?
interpreted... one needs to go have regular meetings with spirit. And go travel a bit (lower world, upper worlds, other worlds, this world too btw) and what also helps is to find one of those tenement communities in the world/reality. Does that remind you of anyone?
Feel free to pitch in answering your own question... the more ideas the better
.I am aware what I wrote is not about engaging the physical aspects of reality specifically, but a part of the answer is linked to it - the one about the communities. The other part is about what to do while in the physical reality but is not about interacting with the physical aspects of it specifically - although I'd say travel can be expanded there and one can find lots of spirit and beauty when one travels, especially in nature but also in cities and by widening one's horizons, sometimes even meeting other people/cultures
. Plus if one travels with a member of one's community - friend - then it is all the more fun .Also, I am not so convinced that the physical reality is shallow and disconnected from spirit - one just needs to finetune themselves a bit to be able to receive the signal here is all.
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-11-2018
Yes, speaking to darkness does remind me of many people (most of the Sorcery community). Life often requires a fair degree of sadness to turn individuals down the path of Sorcery.
Yes, speaking to other worlds does remind me of many people, as well (again, most here at Sorcery have their own methods for achieving this).
What I think helps soothe the loneliness (to answer my own inquiry) is being loved the way we ought to be loved. That can be from ourselves, but oftentimes we don't know how to love--we must first be shown. I find the world to be a very dark place, but that's due to what I do, which is related to what I've seen, and that relates to bearing witness to the system. My AP has shown me the darkness we live in and from my perspective we are shallow and disconnected from spirit as a group (group: humanity). There are people within this group who have succeeded in connecting with spirit and nature. They are not the majority.
For those who are exceptionally connected with an ability to see--they can avoid being debilitated by learning how to limit their vision. Focusing on the good, the light, can shield out much of the darkness. This equates to isolating and solitude (for the mind, body, and spirit). Then if it's possible, to spread that AP further out, like casting a net, and then proceeding further outward.
You might be capable of knowing when a finetunement is necessary for you, in order to see more connection around you. Unfortunately, not everyone has their own shaman or another enlightned being to guide them. The majority believe materialism is the path to enlightenment, success, and happiness. There are some students who come from single-parent families, who are regularly shamed and belittled (and sometimes worse), who come to school wearing broken tennis shoes who don't have a jacket during the winter, and they don't have breakfast or dinner. They eat lunch because it's free. Some of those students don't even eat lunch because their parent never got around to filling out the federal free lunch form. I can't see recommending to those people (who eventually become adults) that all they need to do is "look a bit more to see the good". Some people have had very little good to see and before they can spot it, they require more experience with it. How we conceptualize "light", "goodness", or "connectivity" will largely depend on our experience of such.
What advice would you give to those who have known only neglect or abuse? Do you think they would even be able to recognize light if it fell into their lap?
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-11-2018
watergaze wrote:
Also, I am not so convinced that the physical reality is shallow and disconnected from spirit - one just needs to finetune themselves a bit to be able to receive the signal here is all.
For poverty-stricken individuals coming from very poor backgrounds and without much education or knowledge, where would they learn such skills? It is simple to help the individual who has come from a decent family and is currently functional. These people can pay for services from any number of gurus. They also have the time and energy necessary to study metaphysics. It's a bit different for the individual who lacks most resources in life. These populations are focusing on survival. The good in their life is likely in short supply. Finances, time, and energy are funneled into survival efforts.
To become skilled at enlightenment (seeing what one wants to see), it requires significant time and energy, and we aren't paid to enlighten ourselves. That's time and energy shifted from what could be financial opportunities to increase income. Not everyone is so fortunate. So those who are less fortunate often lack the opportunity to help themselves attain a higher level of spirituality.
Yes, it would be great if the answer to feelings of disconnected were as simple as "seek the good". For some, it is merely that simple. For many, it requires more.
The Sound of Silence - funnyguy - 01-11-2018
I agree that for a person who does not have the resources or time to attain higher awareness it might be harder but certainly not impossible. Gurus are not really necessary in my opinion to advance the level of spirituality.
And as you make the correlation between finance and time if that is what one occupies his time with I'd say it's entirely possible and even required to put in practices which help towards becoming a better human being while actually surviving. If one adopts stalking as a habit gaining detachment over time would become inevitable. Needless to say that will start opening doors to other views and possibilities previously crushed by his survival oriented point of view.
I believe DJ said something along those lines "The key is amidst all the mundane actions you perform in your daily life." I refuse to let go of "If there is a will there is a way.".
The physical reality is certainly not disconnected from spirit it is just another expression of it.
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-11-2018
Gurus aren't necessary, but they sure are helpful. Just like being powerful isn't necessary to change the world, but having the resources to have a message heard by the masses does make it so much easier. Gurus can be incredibly helpful (assuming the guru one chooses isn't a psychopath). I see the issue could be linked to semantics. Instead of "guru" it can be "guide" or "shaman" or even "friend". Basically, it's someone who can show the way further into oneself, that type of role can make the process for another more efficient. Sometimes a "guru" might be the author of a book whereby there is no direct communication. Learning by observation is a thing.
Yes, and some resourceful people can work toward two goals (survival and enlightenment) simultaneously. Those who are properly motivated can achieve many things when they set their mind to it. However, not everyone is capable of functioning at that level (as I've said). That mindset is an advanced skill. Certainly beneficial for the reasons you mention, but some haven't developed the foundations necessary to see things from that perspective. It's important to connect people with that mindset by setting an example and showing them the benefits of working toward such a mindset. Not everyone is intrinsically motivated.
"The physical reality is certainly not disconnected from spirit it is just another expression of it." That is similar to what WG said. As I replied to her, my response to you is the same: some see it that way, but many don't. It's important to remain inclusive. Those who see things from a functional perspective aren't the audience that the leading post is speaking to. The Sound of Silence is an exploration of the deviant mind, and so the focus is not on those who identify with a state of connectivity, it's for those who struggle with remaining connected to their purpose. When we know our purpose (or have a purpose), we become intrinsically motivated.
The Sound of Silence - Julio Juliopolis - 01-11-2018
In this song, I see "silence" as having two meanings. The first is just emptiness. This is where the problem with communication lay. People not speaking in ways to be understood, or listening in ways to understand. Ultimately they are effectively conversing with emptiness.
The other meaning I see is silence as an unwillingness to discuss things, and how that creates problems. The line "silence like a cancer grows" seems this way to me. If no one else seems willing to discuss something, then it's harder for the next person.
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-11-2018
That's interesting you see silence from a dysfunctional perspective. There are positives to silence too. It allows for distance to grow and keeps the mind pure from outside influences. Not to say outside influences are unwanted, only that there are benefits from holding a space of silence. Silence is also necessary to better hear the darkness.
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-11-2018
Hm.. we are going beyond the scope of the song.. but as long as JJ does not frown on us, I'm cool with that
. I think the song did an OK job answering the question you asked about the physical reality... Your new posts, however, pose quite a different question/issue indeed, one we cannot answer by interpreting the wisdom found in the song. No matter, let's dive in .Yes, as a group, the Western society is not exactly in sync. And it may be quite hard for us to find any society that is in sync. Who from among us has traveled somewhere where we found such a society? I found people striving for it and longing for it and trying to do something about it, but I have not actually been to places where maybe there is something like what I'd imagine - I wonder if anything like that even exists anywhere on this earth. I guess here the power is in the fact that I can imagine it - and this is something like a piece of luminosity that is inside me and can live - and in turn, I can live better (even though I am in a different society. I will explain in a bit about how comparing things can be the culprit of failing at stuff in this world hehe but here I'm gonna ask: Would most people not say that the situation, of not being in a society that is in sync when one is aware of it, would create pain and maybe even anger and all of who knows what other burdensome feelings? To know about something one does not have but longs for? Well, here it is where we come to bends - these burdensome feelings are due to bends, if one works on healing themselves then such bad feelings do not take over one's being anymore. There is still longing and maybe sometimes sadness but it is not that heavy burdensome painful sadness and there is hope and a few other nice things).
A lot of what you talk about comes down to education. That is something of great interest to me, and I find it more important than say what Le_Regard is crusading for with the healers/helpers (and getting money for it) and all that (though it is great people focus attention on solving those areas of society ofc, and I hope they solve them well). Education is the only way to reach those people who would otherwise not have the chance to wake up to the possibilities. But, having said that, I want to share an informative story which shows how people actually are:
There was a man who was a father. He was a drunkard and was abusive to his wife and children. He would beat them regularly. He had two sons who grew up and had their own families. The elder son grew up to be a father and husband himself, he was loving and never abusive. The younger son also had a family and became an abusive drunkard as his father was. Both of the brothers got asked the same question: How come you grew up to be this way? And both answered: How could I be any other way given the father that I had.
In your post you make it sound like poverty and bad conditions and such lead to people not having the same chances. This can be the case but often enough it is not. I find it is not about circumstances but one's inner self. Why does one brother turn out to have learned from his father's mistakes while the other one repeated them? To the extent of this question, we can say that it has nothing much to do with what they experienced, it has something to do with their being. And there I would go to the territory of education, the younger brother would have had a better chance if our education were expanded a bit. (maybe incorporated well being of the soul and spirit and how to heal inwardly and all that. I surely think it is more important than knowing how to read and write or calculus or anything else the kids are taught).
But how come the older brother managed to do without it? And I guess you'd say he was one of those you mention as being more resourceful (one who can work toward two goals - survival and enlightenment). And although what you say surely makes the difference for some. I do not think this is the case for that older brother. You mention motivation, and that I would put into the older brother situation for sure. I think some people become aware that there is only one goal - survival --> and to call it more healthily: 'to live' --> then 'to flourish' -- this is what to survive properly actually leads to. And then the question is what that means to them. how can one live in a healthy way if one has not touched the spirit? One can't. And for the older brother, it was about how can one live in a good way (a life worth living) if one abuses those that one loves the most? What kind of a life is that? He made it very clear to himself that it is not the life he wanted. And there is no way he would contribute to anyone having such a life. Thnx to his circumstances he gained insight, and he gained some strength too because he knew where such a path led so he gave it his all to not go down that path.
This insight can be something which education can help bring about...
It is easy to say I was lucky to find the shaman. I will not dispute I was lucky to find her, but it really was not luck as commonly understood - as in not a coincidence. I would say I was lucky that people like her exist in the world... that the world is lucky people like her exist... but see that might not be luck - coincidence either
. Any other person can find her too - she was not hiding. The reason why I found her was because of who I was, it was not a coincidence. I found her because I was seeking something specific (and it was not a guru or a shaman or a teacher for myself). If you don't search you might never find a thing... and this is also where education could be helpful..
Pixie wrote:What advice would you give to those who have known only neglect or abuse? Do you think they would even be able to recognize light if it fell into their lap?
I find that those people can recognize light and love much faster than the other ones and they also value it more. In some sense, in this they actually have an advantage. If they allow themselves to face it. For many of these people experiencing it is quite painful at first. So it is about their courage and strength and how much they actually want it in their lives. Quite a few people just turn away from it cause it is too hurtful - but they do recognize it. That is what I think... what I have seen... But I do not think I have seen it all or even enough to know about all aspects of humanity.
I would surely advise them not to give up and to fight for the type of life they want. I would advise them to heal and pursue a path that fosters healing. I would advise them not to lose patience if big results do not come right away. Specifically, it is a bit harder to say in general, but, in specific cases, a few times in my life, I have said things to people sometimes that I knew would have been 98% helpful had they done them. And I have also seen people who have been given functional advice not by me, but did not do what they were advised to do. So the problem is even when a person suggest the first (second, third or whatever) step the people don't do it. I know, I have not done some of the steps myself that were suggested and would have been helpful. So what to do to actually get people to do things
? Nothing really, if the people don't want to do, then no one person can force them. And this is where we falter as people. We are lazy, we get comfortable with our bad sides and we don't want to change. We think we do, but we don't really cause we surely don't wanna work hard for it. And also, why change if we find our bad sides were actually helpful for us - and they well might have been and saved us some bruises or fractures in the past. We don't trust others and we surely do not want to be told what to do.
And even with all of that baggage, many still think they want to be helped and guided and taught
. Catch 22?
The Sound of Silence - Julio Juliopolis - 01-12-2018
Pixie Dust wrote:
That's interesting you see silence from a dysfunctional perspective. There are positives to silence too. It allows for distance to grow and keeps the mind pure from outside influences. Not to say outside influences are unwanted, only that there are benefits from holding a space of silence. Silence is also necessary to better hear the darkness.
I don't normally see silence as dysfunctional, only the context of the song led me to that. It's a different side to silence. The side you point out is the room it gives you to grow, the other side is the distance it creates from helpful souls. Two sides of the same coin it seems.
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-12-2018
Watergaze, you asked if bends do not arise from the longing of something we don't have. I think they can for some and they might not for others. Like your story of the two sons from a drunken father, each turned out differently due to personality.
Yes, and there might be a Catch 22 in the scenario you point out. However, for the lazy person who enjoys the consequences of their actions, I would say that type of person may enjoy being lead, taught, and trusting in others, but with the right individuals or community. We each need a certain arrangement to be made comfortable and I wouldnt call this a Catch 22, I would call this waiting for what one wants and needs. Being wise enough to wait for what's beneficial and disregarding what is not. This doesn't necessarily lead to a bend. It just gets tossed into the pile of life experiences to learn and grow from. In some cases the behavior you mention could lead to a bend, it just depends on the personality (like how you point out people respond differently due to personality).
JJ, yeah, different sides of a coin. Some prefer head, some prefer tails.
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-12-2018
I wrote:I will explain in a bit about how comparing things can be the culprit of failing at stuff in this world
So what was I saying about this comparison thing being the root of some evil? hehe.
I also (like you) considered circumstances of people and the dis/advantages that come with them. I have had the luck in my life to see a couple of different societies on different continents. I considered that both living in poverty and being rich /having all that one needs and desires comes with a set of disadvantages. But in places where people have similar circumstances, it is less likely that people will get into conflict - inwardly or outwardly.
Maybe a part of where the bend occurs is in comparing. If everyone is poor it is just normal life. You try to enjoy whatever you can as much as possible cause that is what people do in their natural normal state of life. But if you are poor and your neighbor is rich, if you are ill and your neighbor is healthy... you see where I am going with this. If no one had money for lunch it would be a natural state, if only you don't have money for lunch then all sorts of things come into play: shame, envy, self-pity, anger, etc. And those who have money, if they are the majority might be mean to those who don't (or the other way round).
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-12-2018
yep, we do not live in a clear-cut universe of if somebody does X then another person will do Y
. But there are tendencies and you were pointing out certain tendencies or developments/bends that happen to people who are abused and have bad experiences and such. I hope my answer was to the point there.And you know, I have seen in others and experienced myself the pain of human kindness and love. It is the strangest thing that something that is so good can create such pain in broken beings (beings with certain types of bends). That is how people who run from pain might find themselves at a really bad bad place. But of course, it is rare that this would happen to someone who had no previous painful experiences (though all in all such a person who did not experience anything painful in their life might not even exist)... so, yes, certain things really create bad disadvantages when an instinct that seems healthy at first glance (to avoid pain) leads to further unhealthy states. Hence it is really crucial to have the necessary awareness or healthy self-preservation... to accompany such and increasing people's knowledge about things would be helpful.
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-12-2018
Generally, the majority aren't the ones to notice a bend in themselves. They are the norm.
Bends can develop when differences are pointed put as less ideal and pressure is put on these individuals to assimilate into the majority. I think of schools in these cases as being a common place for this issue to occur.
Yes, the pain of human kindness and love can be unbearable. It's nice though. It gives a different perspective to life. It's good to know there are many ways to feel and that love can be a force to wield. It's an unconventional approach to war and really neat to witness.
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-12-2018
Pixie wrote:Generally, the majority aren't the ones to notice a bend in themselves. They are the norm.
hence why education / raising their knowledge and awareness is the way to go. Then they can make more informed decisions.
.
Pixie wrote:Bends can develop when differences are pointed put as less ideal and pressure is put on these individuals to assimilate into the majority. I think of schools in these cases as being a common place for this issue to occur.
yea, any place that houses a lot of people is where this happens. And for kids that is schools. Plus also often the first places where they meet society at large so in that sense schools play a major role - one other reason why the role of education is so important. Kids will be kids they say, but teachers (and adults in general ofc) play quite a big role in this too.
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Pixie wrote:Yes, the pain of human kindness and love can be unbearable. It's nice though. It gives a different perspective to life. It's good to know there are many ways to feel and that love can be a force to wield. It's an unconventional approach to war and really neat to witness.
Approach to war? Do you mean like a weapon to annihilate your enemies with? lol Pixie, damn it, no
. Not unless you mean make your enemies your friends (or just neutralize the enemy aspect) - then of course: Yes, Pixie, indeed hehe. But it is a dangerous business for the ones trying to make it happen .So, yea, love, even in these cases when it hurts (because the ones feeling it are broken), is a healing element. Like when wounds bones start healing it hurts too... the first steps of healing.
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-12-2018
I thought annihilation was the same as neutralizing a threat? They aren't different, are they? XP
Isn't it a little strange that both death and healing feel painful initially? I wonder how many people mistake one for the other.
The Sound of Silence - Pixie Dust - 01-12-2018
But yes, education is extremely important. School is where the majority of the population learn about the world. Expectations for life are developed during this stage and the impact is tremendous. One aspect missing from schools in America (I'm focusing on just my country to keep this simple for me) is an awareness for wellness. American instruction focuses on skill development without any significant personal development. The focus is acutely external while we cover just a few basics of internal mechanisms. Many of the guidance programs focus on how to function, but not how to live (flourish).
In an ideal world, students would have space (time slot) designed for them to learn more about themselves. That and students often don't see their school counselor unless there's a problem that impacts them enough to get noticed. Just like many adults don't go to a mental health professional until there's a noticeable problem. Ideally, these are preventive and proactive programs designed for communities. Ideally, this all is less of an awkward dance individuals do with society. Seriously though, how nice it would be to live in a society where children grow up with a solid understanding of how to engage themselves, others, and life. Instead, we're force-feeding students as much curriculum as they can handle and when they crack under the weight of too much pressure they become stigmatized. It's unfortunate there aren't more holistic approaches to education available.
The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-30-2018
Sorry for the delayed response... I was writing a reply but my browser crashed and it took me a while to get back to it.
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I wrote wrote:I found people striving for it and longing for it and trying to do something about it, but I have not actually been to places where maybe there is something like what I'd imagine - I wonder if anything like that even exists anywhere on this earth. I guess here the power is in the fact that I can imagine it - and this is something like a piece of luminosity that is inside me and can live - and in turn, I can live better (even though I am in a different society. I will explain in a bit about how comparing things can be the culprit of failing at stuff in this world hehe but here I'm gonna ask: Would most people not say that the situation, of not being in a society that is in sync when one is aware of it, would create pain and maybe even anger and all of who knows what other burdensome feelings? To know about something one does not have but longs for? Well, here it is where we come to bends - these burdensome feelings are due to bends, if one works on healing themselves then such bad feelings do not take over one's being anymore. There is still longing and maybe sometimes sadness but it is not that heavy burdensome painful sadness and there is hope and a few other nice things).
Pixie wrote:Watergaze, you asked if bends do not arise from the longing of something we don't have. I think they can for some and they might not for others. Like your story of the two sons from a drunken father, each turned out differently due to personality.
Yes, I agree with what you say.
I also wanted to make the point that this longing - which is quite natural - does not have to lead to anything negative (to 'bad' and painful emotions). That it does not when people do not have bends. If one works on their issues then these same longing can serve a great purpose and be helpful and even give us strength (even power). I expressed this thought also because in a different thread we touched on the topic of bends and how some of them might have served us well at certain times
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Pixie wrote:I would say that type of person may enjoy being lead, taught, and trusting in others, but with the right individuals or community. We each need a certain arrangement to be made comfortable and I wouldnt call this a Catch 22, I would call this waiting for what one wants and needs. Being wise enough to wait for what's beneficial and disregarding what is not.
Yes, totally
. You hit the nail on the head there .And when you write "waiting" I would say it is a process that people learn from.
I was talking more about how one is at the start of this process. How one expects the shaman/guru/teacher/helper to prove himself or herself to them. I am not saying it is wrong (it seems common sense)... but it might be tiring for the shaman to always face this kind of setting in others
.Anyway, if the person who wants to learn is hesitant and untrusting they cannot really learn all that smoothly/easily cause they are not open. A good helper know the dance they gotta do in this situation - in CC's books it is quite frankly called tricking. And since the last thing the person wants is to be tricked...well
. We do think we want things to be put before us in straight and honest, truthful ways and then we want to make up our own mind about stuff... I sure do
.So there is a bit of a Catch 22
. (Until one evolves a bit and then there are other settings that one adopts...)----
Pixie wrote:I thought annihilation was the same as neutralizing a threat? They aren't different, are they? XP
Oh dear
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Pixie wrote:Isn't it a little strange that both death and healing feel painful initially? I wonder how many people mistake one for the other.
This is a quote from a novel by Toni Morrison called Beloved: "anything dead coming back to life hurts."
Thankfully not all healing needs to hurt. I experienced different types
.I guess it is the movement close (within a certain distance / in a certain zone near) to death that hurts. So if we pass that zone, be it due to going back towards life (healing) or going towards death, then it hurts.
Yea, I wonder too... this is why it is good to know what is what... One needs to have a good sense of direction
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The Sound of Silence - watergaze - 01-30-2018
I see we agree on a lot in our opinions on education. I am not surprised
.awareness of wellness... yep that is the 'to flourish' I mentioned in my previous post. I also see a great hole in our schools in this regard. And what you mention about functioning - this is also present in our medicine that tends to the psyche. Functioning seems good enough, when it really should not be.
I had to smile when reading about what you say about students needing space/time for them to learn more about themselves. I was writing something similar a page previous in a response (but decided not to post it cause my version was really long).
Pixie wrote:It's unfortunate there aren't more holistic approaches to education available.
Indeed. The sadest thing is that there are teachers who would like to bring more to their students but there are two problems in this regard. One is that many do not know what it is that is actually missing - what to bring to fill the hole. Another is that there is no space for that in the curriculum and (even if there was space) the school would probably not allow it.
I've been looking into the tricking thing a little
.I would be curious to hear more about your ideas on how to bring more 'light' (education for the soul and spirit) into our schools.
The Sound of Silence - Guest - 08-21-2019