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the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 08-18-2017
I somehow got to this video when going over a website that was not related in subject matter to it... and I listened in. Health has been a topic here recently and I thought Pixie might enjoy watching this. Note also the link to education - something mentioned recently too. I said I find the education system (of the so called Western world) to be quite lacking. Due to this lack of emotional intelligence and understanding in our society people get medicated that should, in my opinion, have been given a different type of care (ideally from a young age).
"I wanna talk to those of us who have been labeled by psychiatry (...) labels that have to do with what is called psychosis because we are particularly sensitive and particularly injured in ways that others are not. because we are injured in really profound ways when we come to psychiatry and then psychiatry and the drugs tend to ingrain those injuries much much more deeply into the neural networks and it becomes that much more difficult to recover. (...)
Those of us with these kinds of splits in our psyche, those of us who get labeled psychotic tend to have splits in our psyche. As a result of trauma or simple sensitivity to the trauma that goes on in the world we feel, we feel a lot.
We need recognition as children to be given the support to become who we are and to heal as well. Both. They are the same. To become who we are and to heal - it's the same thing.
In tribal cultures, this is done early in children's' lives. Those sensitive souls are recognized and when they are 12 or so they are brought into an initiation process with a shaman or medicine man or medicine woman and they are intiiated in a systematic and methodological way, also ritualized, so that a deeper profound healing happens and a deep and profound acceptance of the nature of who and what we are also happens. We are sensitive, we are not the same as everybody else, and we need that recognition, that respect and that support pretty much from everybody.but since we dont get it from society we need to give it to each other.
(...)
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 08-20-2017
Yes! This is my stance too regarding the Western education and mental health system. Western education systems aren't developing decent human beings. It's a one-size fits a few system. Most children can't sit still in the way necessary for most schools. There's far more bullying in schools. The school district I worked in last year saw FIVE suicides. Our children are very sad and are opting out of life because they aren't receiving the sort of basic support from caregivers...likely because caregivers are very broken too.
The mental health system in America is failing people. We deem them broken when they are so far from being defined in the way the DSM thinks appropriate. The DSM focuses on what's wrong with a person and the solution is often prescriptions. It's not the correct way to heal people. How does making people feel broken and shunned (isolated) from society heal them? It doesn't. Shamans can heal. Spiritual communities could heal what's broken. I've met many who spent their childhoods being told they were different and broken.... and as adults, they decided to believe those lies. As doctors and/or healers, we shouldn't be telling people they're broken. The DSM should be revised entirely. Those diagnosed with PTSD are lacking a spiritual foundation (peer-reviewed scholarly studies have been published on this). It's incredible how inept we are at taking care of the spirit.
America has some serious work to do.
Education and the mental health industry are my passion and the fields I wander in. What you're sharing about these things are valuable. These fields benefit from having you in them.
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 08-20-2017
I don't know if you've noticed this yet--but most of us at Sorcery are borderline mental patients. Then again, the difference between a psychic and a schizophrenic is one is functional and the other is dysfunctional
This implies that the mentally ill are people with abilities that aren't well understood by science, who would benefit from a skilled shaman. A skilled shaman being an individual who can help bridge the connection between the tonal and the spiritual bodies -- alignment (to bring functionality to the individual). Ideally, the mentally ill are treated as people going through a type of kundalini awakening--and those often bring sudden energetic shifts. Give them the right support and they can come out of those breaks in reality successfully and intact. Give them no support and them come out broken--and cycling through an assortment of medication to "fix" their spirit.
It's tragic that America hasn't merged the fields of spirituality with medicine. The two together work miracles. Naturopathy is taking this route and it's becoming more popular as people are realizing the inadequacies of western medicine. Eastern cultures have been practicing naturopathy for centuries--if the east and west could manage to get along, healing might occur to a greater degree. How wonderful that would be.
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 08-20-2017
Also, yes, splits in psyche occur when people go for extended periods without support. What you mention about needing recognition and support are necessary. This is where it gets tricky with Carlos Castenada beliefs. So many of his followers believe they've re-capped and are above it all (warriors). Many will deny having issues because they don't want the public shaming that occurs because somehow being human is frowned upon since the goal is to be a nagual. Yet a nagual is something made up. Four-pronged individuals are the chosen ones? Really? Consider all the naguals we've met and consider whether they are something you want to be like (don't count me lol I'm not nagual).
It's why I can't hate Wolf. He was broken at a young age (as he says) and had no one to help him besides a particular form of shamanism. It kept him alive. He plays games with people to "test" them because that's what Carlos said stalkers do. Wolf is committed to a particular form of shamanism and that's his passion, that's what satisfied him. Though after reading his history he wrote, it's clear that his psyche was split and it remained split. It's not even his fault. He is a product of a society that is spiritually ignorant. WG consider why you were brought in. Wolf was wise and could see, he is spiritually aware. That awareness wasn't supported by a shaman and so he had to teach himself. When we dance close to the edge of awareness, our minds have the potential to slip into that abyss. If we know we're entering a fall, we save the things we care about. Sorcery was Wolf's life. He gave it to someone who would treat it well, in the spirit he intended. That was you, girl. You're special. Special because you genuinely care about others and are intellectually competent.
So I think about the people like Wolf and how the mental health system failed him. How humanity failed him. How there are so many like him out there. Society judges the mentally ill because they don't understand them. Yet here you are, hanging out with a group of borderline mentally ill individuals and trying to make sense out of it. It's easy to see our calling when we look at the patterns we've held. How we've invested our time and energy reveals where our heart resides. Consider your passion and your calling. You've been doing it for a long time now.
(You know, in case you were contemplating purpose and direction xD )
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 08-22-2017
Pixie Dust wrote:
Western education systems aren't developing decent human beings.
the system as such isnt but somehow thanks to decent humans we still get other decent humans. Also, this is a lot more far reaching than Western educational systems. Like how about say the arab countries or the african ones... in general not much better... if not worse. The only ones who have a certain upper hand are the indegenous and ancient cultures. I read somewhere that the native americans are more right brained than europeans... if this is indeed the case then they already have quite the upper hand as a starting point.
Pixie wrote: It's a one-size fits a few system.
yea, they figured what works for a few in a way that things that are valued in the society grows out of them... trouble is we rarely know what is actually good for us (individual or society wise).
Pixie wrote:Most children can't sit still in the way necessary for most schools. There's far more bullying in schools. The school district I worked in last year saw FIVE suicides. Our children are very sad and are opting out of life because they aren't receiving the sort of basic support from caregivers...likely because caregivers are very broken too.
yes, suicides is quite a thing over there. Luckily not yet where I am... I hope that never happens here.. also not such a society/tradition of bullying in schools... or separating into groups (like one sees in the US movies). I sure hope it still seems like an alternate reality to students who see those movies/series.
But let me tell you.. I grew up in a totalitarian system (for a part of my life). No one ever asked me what I think about anything (the teaching basically consisted of learning unrealitically large quantities of material by heart). My teachers could yell at me for no reason whenever they wanted - and some did. They did not have to be fair (and many were not). There was a lot of stress on a couple of fronts. School was not enjoyable in general. There were no arts - music, drawing, theatre...
But you can see that the system of education does not have to spoil a kid - so to speak. Of course it would have been wonderful to have an advantage in schooling, if not at least to not have a disadvantage... I feel I would really have enjoyed arts... or discussions about ideas and such... anyway... my point is that nothing is doomed just cause our education is kinda blind sided.
When I saw the Western educational system... I was amazed. The math is actually explained in a systematic way... there is art... there is analysis and interpretation. Teacher try to bring students to critical thinking. With this kind of education and these kinds of teachers though many of the kids are ungrateful and mean. Why is that?
The less overt problems one has the more space for lability to show - weird how that can be. But it makes sense. Our people, thanks to becoming more and more distanced from real survival problems, are able to evolve into a lot more sensitive beings. In africa the sensitiviy is to desease and violence, here it is to parents/classmates yelling at you or ignoring you. Go to school with the option of being killed, raped, mutilated or kidnapped for ransom and you will see how fast the fact that someone was mean in school will not register on the scale of things to worry about. We do not have a thick skin any more. Is this a good development? Well... in a certain sense it would be great. But then there is the problem that not all of the world is at this stage and if a kid withough thick skin meets issues of the thick skinned world then its even more horrible. But I am digressing...
Pixie wrote:The mental health system in America is failing people. We deem them broken when they are so far from being defined in the way the DSM thinks appropriate. The DSM focuses on what's wrong with a person and the solution is often prescriptions. It's not the correct way to heal people. How does making people feel broken and shunned (isolated) from society heal them? It doesn't. Shamans can heal. Spiritual communities could heal what's broken. I've met many who spent their childhoods being told they were different and broken.... and as adults, they decided to believe those lies. As doctors and/or healers, we shouldn't be telling people they're broken. The DSM should be revised entirely. Those diagnosed with PTSD are lacking a spiritual foundation (peer-reviewed scholarly studies have been published on this). It's incredible how inept we are at taking care of the spirit.
I do wish more people start to see these things and that those who are able to will act on them and change things.
Pixie wrote:Education and the mental health industry are my passion and the fields I wander in. What you're sharing about these things are valuable. These fields benefit from having you in them.
I wish that people with a wider scope would be allowed to bring new things into the system. It would be great if we could create an Emotional Inteligence subject for out children/students. In International Schools there is a 'Theory of Knowledge' subject. When I first encountered that I was like: how cool and wonderful. But then I learned what the kids do there and then I was a bit disappointed cause the subject has such a great name
. As a teacher I can bring certain topics into class for discussion - through articles or literature that we read / watch /listen to. But all in all the scope of this is pretty limited. In general it is "too much to do, too little time" kinda thing. Plus so little actually good literature in the dimension that is accessible to students of a certain age.
The stuff that students read in classess.... I sometimes find horrendous. So much trauma in the books, so much horror. Things that do not make sense. Why do we do that to our childern? There is a lot that is broken in our society and storytelling is among those. Education and sotrytelling are linked. Storytelling and identity are linked. Education and bulding a healthy identity are linked. etc.
the pathology of psychosciences - serloco - 08-22-2017
Today I went to a doctors appointment at the hospital to evaluate the condition of my mind after being split myself. I sat and chatted with many of the nurses while at my stay in the psych ward, talking about the nature of the condition known as schizophrenia. The term, of course, means split mind. The nurses were so enthused with my knowledge that they recommended I give teaching seminars in order to help those suffering from schizophrenia. The doctor was impressed and spoke to me of all the nurses notes about me.
The thing to understand is that indeed there can be different factors that contribute to having your mind split. Schizophrenia is often coupled with the condition of paranoia which is also a cause for split. See the mind is made up and controlled by our perception of it. Many patients report being mind controlled by the government or cia or alien beings. Paranoid delusions. This perception often forms a split in their mind as a result of belief and awareness activated and aligned to fullfill the form of this fantasy. The mind will spit and play the role. A damaged perception of the mind is a damaged intent forced upon the mind itself. If you have an unhealthy view of the mind then of course your mind will be thus unhealthy.
The goal of my upcoming seminar involved rethinking madness. Taking a new outlook on your mind and reconsidering with new knowledge what is happening with the mind. The mind is not a living entity as often believed by schizophrenics. If you hold that view it is only natural for the perception to form and thus be experienced in this light. The mind is an amazing muscle capable of so much and it is not surprising that it can split into two minds. Learning to control the idea you have of your ailment will effectively shift the experience into new form and alignment. For example once you realize that you are ill and there is no alien being controlling your mind then the perception will begin to shift and appear in the new light you are focusing on. Controlling the knowledge and outlook you have of your condition is paramount to having a recovery.
In my studies of the condition I saw that having a positive support group can mean the difference between healthy recovery or continued psychosis. Postive psychosocial interaction can mean a world of difference and is the number one cause for recovery among patients. If someone tells you that you CAN recover then the patient's will and intent is set, and hope is found, a goal and direction to move towards. Previously patients were told that it is a life long condition with no hope of recovery and thus the patients will was set to continuously intend the ailment. However these days it is discovered that forming pathways of the mind towards recovery and controlling the perception of the mind is crucial to recovery. The old pathways must be reworked and reconditioned. Using the belief and the imagination to cure the ailment and many other ailments is proven to be effective. Placebo is no small matter.
Bottom line is controlling the minds eye, the view of the mind itself, and the knowledge of the mind is important to a full recovery. The mind is formed through neuroplasticity and thus can be effectively reformed and reworked into newer and healtheir forms.
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 08-22-2017
Pixie Dust wrote:
I don't know if you've noticed this yet--but most of us at Sorcery are borderline mental patients. Then again, the difference between a psychic and a schizophrenic is one is functional and the other is dysfunctional
I do not operate that precisely within the different terms for different types of spychoses. I just remember that schizoprhenia is quite misunderstood by the masses and that it is not the typical thing portrayed in movies - that that type of schizophrenia is very rare.
However, I see most people as borderline mental patients. They seem so 'normal' on the outside cause they keep themselves together by being busy or distracting themselves. When they are alone and have nothing to do and no TV to watch - this is where mental sanity should be measured. As far as I have observed, many get into weirdly imbalanced emotional states in these cases.
The difference between those at sorcery and the 'normals' is that we know a lot more about our mental state
. We know where we stand and what we need to work on and where our soft spots are = we are more aware. This is our strength.. one that 'normals' do not tend to have. If you know that if you put the weight of your body on a certain limb at a certain agle that you might crash to the pavement then you are careful when you have to put pressure on it and take care not to fall, you also implement some exercises to strengthen these parts of your body - if you are smart. Therefore awareness is crucial. Normals either dont know or do not find the time/energy/need to strengthen / heal their weak parts. Or they can think something is a weak part that is not - again due to lack of awareness.
Pixie Dust wrote:
This implies that the mentally ill are people with abilities that aren't well understood by science, who would benefit from a skilled shaman. A skilled shaman being an individual who can help bridge the connection between the tonal and the spiritual bodies -- alignment (to bring functionality to the individual). Ideally, the mentally ill are treated as people going through a type of kundalini awakening--and those often bring sudden energetic shifts. Give them the right support and they can come out of those breaks in reality successfully and intact. Give them no support and them come out broken--and cycling through an assortment of medication to "fix" their spirit.
this is surely an option. other option also is that the mentally ill just got stuck in an AP that is not that great for us humans. I saw this happen a few times due to drug use. AP becomes displaced and moved somewhere and the person cannot get back. Mental breakdown, incapability to function in a healthy or at least usual way...
everyone i know who has some kind of psychological diagnosis (not going into personality splits and such heavy stuff) or problem has taken drugs in the past or still is. by drugs I mean psychedelics and even harder drugs. People with panic atacs, anxieties, manic/ depressions...
saying it is about kundalini is a very optimistic way of looking at it
. But I am not sure where your definition of mental illness begins. Maybe you do not count social anxiety or panic attacks as an illness yet.
the pathology of psychosciences - serloco - 08-22-2017
Alo an interestig tidbit of information is that 67% of people who recover from schizophrenia do so off of medication because they deal with their natural mind on their own and thus reform their own mind thru their own will without intervention or dependence on brain altering chemicals. Only 6% of people recover while on medications.
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 08-22-2017
yea, very interesting statistics serloco. I'd say it is common sense
Sadly, I do not think the 'normal' treatment (drugs) is about curing, it is about managing.
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 08-23-2017
as to the illness... I agree with what the woman in the video says... it has been my stance for ages that people are medicated for stuff that they are naturally going though and should process and go through to grow and learn.
In this way not only do psychosciences not help those in a pinch they also hinder the processing of stuff that is totally healthy in certain situations.
Like grief or depression or sadness etc.
the pathology of psychosciences - serloco - 08-23-2017
Yes, trust is often very powerful, akin to faith. Having a lil bit of it can mean a world of difference. Also believing in a purpose can too. Things happen for a reason. If you intend to be strong enough to reach a goal in life then your path is set to take you there and thus you must trust and commit to what the universe throws your way. Its only going to get you to where you want to be in life.
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 08-23-2017
Pixie Dust wrote:This is where it gets tricky with Carlos Castenada beliefs. So many of his followers believe they've re-capped and are above it all (warriors). Many will deny having issues because they don't want the public shaming that occurs because somehow being human is frowned upon since the goal is to be a nagual. Yet a nagual is something made up. Four-pronged individuals are the chosen ones? Really? Consider all the naguals we've met and consider whether they are something you want to be like (don't count me lol I'm not nagual).
yes, posturing can be a problem. and is sad indeed.
i dont know who is a nagual - I never cared. I care for healthy and balanced individuals. I have yet to meet a person who claims to be and nagual and be such
. "Pixie wrote:It's why I can't hate Wolf. He was broken at a young age (as he says) and had no one to help him besides a particular form of shamanism. It kept him alive. He plays games with people to "test" them because that's what Carlos said stalkers do. Wolf is committed to a particular form of shamanism and that's his passion, that's what satisfied him. Though after reading his history he wrote, it's clear that his psyche was split and it remained split. It's not even his fault. He is a product of a society that is spiritually ignorant.
I am careful not to summarize people into these kinds of narratives. I do not think it can do them justice plus I have seen many people be wrong in what they say when summarizing. I have not read these things that you refer to, so I cannot say if this is true or not.
"Pixie wrote: WG consider why you were brought in. Wolf was wise and could see, he is spiritually aware. That awareness wasn't supported by a shaman and so he had to teach himself. When we dance close to the edge of awareness, our minds have the potential to slip into that abyss. If we know we're entering a fall, we save the things we care about. Sorcery was Wolf's life. He gave it to someone who would treat it well, in the spirit he intended. That was you, girl. You're special. Special because you genuinely care about others and are intellectually competent.
I think LW has given this place many years and he was already old and wanted to put attention on a specific thing outside of the internet as well as prepare for his final journey. He gave this place to me, so to speak, because I am not a powerhungry mongrel. Lol. But no really... its very silly indeed I know... Plus the fact that I am consistent and reliable has been a plus because many people are not to some website on the www and hence cannot take care of it.
I am a nobody
This is what infuriated some... "Why is she the one who admins this place and not 'me'. She is a nobody, Im a somebody
. I could make such a great use of this hub/place" (well, 'Somebody, why did you not take care of the place? I can tell you why because it was beneath Somebody to aid LW, they want to be their own boss).Simply too big egos/self-importance to allow others into the foreground?
I will rather stay a nobody, thank you very much
. Though being an admin here has ruined my nobody vibe - now I gotta fight battles I find for the most part ridiculous and unworthy of my time and attention (and some that are). - but maybe that is good for me too... 
.I want to note that I think there are wonderful shamans out there in the world. But they would not come here to take care of this place. They got much more important things to do in the world. And, let's face it, most of them are not very friendly with the internet
."Pixie wrote:So I think about the people like Wolf and how the mental health system failed him.
again, I would not jump to conclusions.
"Pixie wrote: How humanity failed him. How there are so many like him out there. Society judges the mentally ill because they don't understand them.
How is LW mentally ill?
"Pixie wrote: Yet here you are, hanging out with a group of borderline mentally ill individuals and trying to make sense out of it. It's easy to see our calling when we look at the patterns we've held. How we've invested our time and energy reveals where our heart resides. Consider your passion and your calling. You've been doing it for a long time now.
(You know, in case you were contemplating purpose and direction xD )
Lol I guess I need it spelled out more. I understand (or feel) people because I am an empath (or maybe try not to because of it). I also understand a lot because I have gone through stuff myself. If I can heal and emerge from the fringes so can you. Cause, again, I am a nobody. And let's hope so are you haha. The more self-importance one has the worse for them: "Oh I am so special in my suffering.... so so special." In a certain sense, like I wrote above, to me most people are bordeline mentally ill. The way they explode in anger, the way they become mean to others under pressure, the way they become jealous and insecure... etc. The way they say that is who they are and think that is who they have to continue to be.
Part of a shamans journey is to heal. In order to heal one has to have stuff to heal. If there is nothing to heal then we are screwed
. Rejoice that you got issues hahaha. And then HEAL .
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 10-30-2017
watergaze wrote:
"Pixie wrote:It's why I can't hate Wolf. He was broken at a young age (as he says) and had no one to help him besides a particular form of shamanism. It kept him alive. He plays games with people to "test" them because that's what Carlos said stalkers do. Wolf is committed to a particular form of shamanism and that's his passion, that's what satisfied him. Though after reading his history he wrote, it's clear that his psyche was split and it remained split. It's not even his fault. He is a product of a society that is spiritually ignorant.
I am careful not to summarize people into these kinds of narratives. I do not think it can do them justice plus I have seen many people be wrong in what they say when summarizing. I have not read these things that you refer to, so I cannot say if this is true or not.
The narrative is one he wrote if you read his section. You might refrain from summarizing people into the narratives he writes, but consider for a moment that he authored himself. He chose to see reality as a place that he didn't feel he could control, and so he exerted control over it. Someone who feels safe doesn't go to the lengths he has to protect himself. Consider the paranoia he exhibited. The power and authority to announce who was or was not a nagual. If you're interested in knowing where I pulled these self-drawn conclusions he's made about himself, I can link you to those articles. He's written excessively about himself, others, and the world. He was good about documenting himself and talking, at length, about things he was passionate about. He's a fascinating individual.
"Pixie wrote: WG consider why you were brought in. Wolf was wise and could see, he is spiritually aware. That awareness wasn't supported by a shaman and so he had to teach himself. When we dance close to the edge of awareness, our minds have the potential to slip into that abyss. If we know we're entering a fall, we save the things we care about. Sorcery was Wolf's life. He gave it to someone who would treat it well, in the spirit he intended. That was you, girl. You're special. Special because you genuinely care about others and are intellectually competent.
I think LW has given this place many years and he was already old and wanted to put attention on a specific thing outside of the internet as well as prepare for his final journey. He gave this place to me, so to speak, because I am not a powerhungry mongrel. Lol. But no really... its very silly indeed I know... Plus the fact that I am consistent and reliable has been a plus because many people are not to some website on the www and hence cannot take care of it.
True, LW is old and his attention was drawn elsewhere... or was it? You assume he's not here because he's not using the account you associate him with. You have no validation as to whether or not he is here under an alias. He may or he may not be. Lol, did he really give the site to you for the reason you mention? What might that say about the others who were present at that time? I don't think Sen was very power hungry, nor do I think Silverwind is either. There were other factors that influenced his decision. Reliability and consistency aren't reasons. Silverwind is extremely consistent and has demonstrated more of a presence than you have. Moreover, SilverWind hasn't deviated from her presentation of character for YEARS. She is very careful with preserving her persona. You, on the other hand, have often been shifted significantly by your emotions. Not that this is bad, I'm also shifted by my emotions. As is Sen and others. To be shifted is to have authenticity in ones exchanges. Anyway, I would say Wolf chose you because you can dream, stalk, are authentic, and care about people. You care enough to reach out to people and those people are few and far between.
I am a nobody
Lies. You are most certainly a somebody.
This is what infuriated some... "Why is she the one who admins this place and not 'me'. She is a nobody, Im a somebody
. I could make such a great use of this hub/place" (well, 'Somebody, why did you not take care of the place? I can tell you why because it was beneath Somebody to aid LW, they want to be their own boss).Lol. Yeah. I can see that argument being made. I'm so glad I wasn't around when that drama occurred. Then again, I quite enjoy a good popcorn fest. I don't know though, did you really aid LW? I mean, his original intent was focused on developing death defiers. His frequency was mysterious, dark, and magical. You're quite the opposite
I sorta view this as him hoping to expand his horizons and to embrace a new perspective, I mean, it was clear what you brought to the table: logic and reason, with a dash of magic. He couldn't have chosen a more different person from himself lol. Simply too big egos/self-importance to allow others into the foreground?
Quality leaders know how to shift. Foreground, background, and mid-ground should all be positions held at some time or another. Depending upon the needs of the group.
I will rather stay a nobody, thank you very much
. Though being an admin here has ruined my nobody vibe - now I gotta fight battles I find for the most part ridiculous and unworthy of my time and attention (and some that are). - but maybe that is good for me too... .Growth comes in many shades. Life is like gaming, if you notice your enemies are tougher to beat (internal and external ones) then it means you're heading in the right direction. You could stop challenging yourself and remain happy, ignorant, and stagnant in life
One day I hope to live in the middle of nowhere, away from everyone, and just tread-water until I die. Once I'm done with all this other **** Being shifted helps everyone to develop themselves. It's not the smartest or most talented who succeed in life; it's the person who is most resilient to change and can adapt that makes the largest strides. You've been pushed into some sh*tty situations, and came out on the other side. That's what's most important. I want to note that I think there are wonderful shamans out there in the world. But they would not come here to take care of this place. They got much more important things to do in the world. And, let's face it, most of them are not very friendly with the internet
.True
Though, I've met a handful of people who've shown me magic (shaman-esque) and they're excessively familiar with the internet They just don't believe in religion or shamanism. They believe in being kind toward others. The magic of loving others can be profoundly powerful. Good people transcend stereotypes and can be found anywhere. Shamans are often outdated hippies who haven't adapted to a changing society. Not all shamans, mind you. There are some who are heart-centered, but they are not the majority. "Pixie wrote:So I think about the people like Wolf and how the mental health system failed him.
again, I would not jump to conclusions.
It's not a jump to conclusions. The mental health field is atrocious. I've read and written at-length on the issues with the mental health field. The success rate for addiction treatment is embarassingly low. It's awful what mental health professionals are currently able to provide to people experiencing mental illness. Wolf had some serious issues (that I can elaborate on based on the current model of psychological health and wellness, should you desire). Honestly, people generally aren't taught how to achieve and maintain mental wellness. There are no courses in high school to teach people how to care for themselves. The education system is focused on academics, but not mental wellness. Mental wellness only enters the picture when dysfunction arises. The majority of adults don't learn how to balance their lives in a healthy manner, but part of this issue is that there's no real place within society where these things are taught. Until there's enough dysfunction to warrant seeing a mental health professional, people don't really learn about what it means to care for oneself. The mental health system has failed the majority.
"Pixie wrote: How humanity failed him. How there are so many like him out there. Society judges the mentally ill because they don't understand them.
How is LW mentally ill?
We can discuss this if you genuinely want a thorough analysis. I can't just summarize in a paragraph what's eating Wolf. It would be pages of analysis to explain Wolf. It would also be somewhat personal and maybe intrusive to openly discuss him. If you want to set up a private forum speficially for this, I'm willing to discuss Wolf with you.
"Pixie wrote: Yet here you are, hanging out with a group of borderline mentally ill individuals and trying to make sense out of it. It's easy to see our calling when we look at the patterns we've held. How we've invested our time and energy reveals where our heart resides. Consider your passion and your calling. You've been doing it for a long time now.
(You know, in case you were contemplating purpose and direction xD )
Lol I guess I need it spelled out more. I understand (or feel) people because I am an empath (or maybe try not to because of it). I also understand a lot because I have gone through stuff myself. If I can heal and emerge from the fringes so can you. Cause, again, I am a nobody. And let's hope so are you haha. The more self-importance one has the worse for them: "Oh I am so special in my suffering.... so so special." In a certain sense, like I wrote above, to me most people are bordeline mentally ill. The way they explode in anger, the way they become mean to others under pressure, the way they become jealous and insecure... etc. The way they say that is who they are and think that is who they have to continue to be.
Lol, Wolf would laugh at what you said. You claim to be a nobody, but holding various APs is the goal. Perfection is an illusion and people are limitless in their expression. Sometimes, how we judge how everyone else should behave reveals a lot about our own inward judgements we hold. For example, you mention people being borderline mentally ill for how they are mean to others, jealous, or insecure. I think it's mentally ill of people to believe that everyone shouldn't be these things. Technically, mental illness must have dysfunction component. Hypothetically, one could be mean, jealous, or insecure and still be functional (meaning far from having a mental illness). Everyone starts somewhere and expecting people to be ideal members of society is silly. It's normal for people to be imperfect in various ways. To expect others to arrange themselves to fit within my version of the world is naive. The world is what it is and the only thing I can control is my response. Hence, people don't have to fit my preference for how they should behave; but when they don't, then I'm allowed to engage them from my preference. (Which might appear crazy to some.)
Point is, no one cares what you think about them. Your judgement of how others should behave reveal the idealism you hold toward yourself. The standards you set for yourself are behavior-based. However, what happens when the internal doesn't match the external? Dissonance. That can manifest in a myriad of conditions. Life is more than behavior. How we think/feel must align with how we live (behavior) to achieve mental wellness.
Part of a shamans journey is to heal. In order to heal one has to have stuff to heal. If there is nothing to heal then we are screwed
. Rejoice that you got issues hahaha. And then HEAL .Lol. Everyone has a lot they could heal if they look deep enough. The most dangerous point to be at is to suffer without realizing there are issues. Denial is something many on the warriors path attempt to side-step. It is far easier to tell someone else to heal than it is to heal oneself. That brings up a good topic of how to hold space for others to heal. Non-judgment and openness to exploration are great tactics to employ. I can think of many who I would be willing to heal myself in front of... sadly, none of them are at Sorcery at this time. It takes an open heart to hold a space for others to heal themselves. Shamanka did well in these areas for a long time. Quantum Shaman was very authentic in this regard. Mornings Son was a tricky little beast, but he held a space for me when I required it. I could probably ramble off a few more names who have been present for me at one time or another
It's nice when people do that for others. Like, I will never forget the kindness that some have provided me to help me along in my journey. No one can offer that space 100% of the time for others, because self-care is important too. But when we have the ability to hold a space for another, we should give that gift. Gifts of toys and money are great, but they can't hold a flame to holding spaces for others to heal. Gift giving should move beyond materialism--but for those still learning how to give of the self, toys and money are welcomed.I did a lot of healing with Wolf and my good ole pal Alan. They both held spaces for me to go deeper within myself, to reflect on my own values and morals, and when given the opportunity to protect them... I took it. Many believe revenge is a dish best served cold, but that's a dish I prefer to skip. There's enough ugliness in the world and I've seen enough to make me not want to take part in certain flavors. I love them both because they freed a fragment of my spirit. I met parts of myself I didn't know existed--and those were the parts I desperately needed to discover. People who push us the most are often those who have the most to offer. The gift our adversaries bring us is ultimately self-acceptance. Shamanism teaches us that to be free of the perspectives of others, allows us true freedom.
Where's my JJ at these days? JJ, you gave good gifts too
Didn't want to leave you out of this little summary. Not as good as Wolf, but pretty darn close. I wish Wolf would come back. It's always the crazy ones who totally understand other crazies. I've met no one crazier, more loyal, and honest than Wolf. He had a special spiritual aroma that I never found elsewhere. He's crazier than I am and that's downright impressive.
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 11-04-2017
Pixie wrote:Lol, Wolf would laugh at what you said. You claim to be a nobody, but holding various APs is the goal. Perfection is an illusion and people are limitless in their expression. Sometimes, how we judge how everyone else should behave reveals a lot about our own inward judgements we hold. For example, you mention people being borderline mentally ill for how they are mean to others, jealous, or insecure. I think it's mentally ill of people to believe that everyone shouldn't be these things. Technically, mental illness must have dysfunction component. Hypothetically, one could be mean, jealous, or insecure and still be functional (meaning far from having a mental illness). Everyone starts somewhere and expecting people to be ideal members of society is silly. It's normal for people to be imperfect in various ways. To expect others to arrange themselves to fit within my version of the world is naive. The world is what it is and the only thing I can control is my response. Hence, people don't have to fit my preference for how they should behave; but when they don't, then I'm allowed to engage them from my preference. (Which might appear crazy to some.)
We have a pretty different view
. I do not think the goal is the same as you do - based on how you talk. Being able to experience different APs is not the goal of it all. Many can be jealous, angry, mean... if this is all it takes then everyone has reached the goal already. But, being a nobody does help a lot in allowing different AP shifts. Having no image to defend is really nice. It is not about judgment what I said but about energy and awareness, for a lack of better words. You talk of mental illness from the perspective of this society, I do not. Or rather I would but society does not have the same definition of dysfunction. If you are a XYZ and you go to work, keep clean, can feed and clothe yourself and obey the law and pay your taxes, you are functional. However, if you are a functional XYZ you are still an XYZ and you are ill. And I'm not just talking about mental illnesses here. Kinda like a pedophile is still a pedophile (if they have the urges or a pedophile - or do you say it all about acts?), an alcoholic still an alcoholic, etc. I do not subscribe to your view that acknowledging that a different type of health exists or can exist constitutes a mental illness
. Makes no sense whatsoever. Unless hm maybe it does.. like psychologists and psychiatrists would be mentally ill for believing they can cure their patients? You speak in general so if you are addressing me it would be better to know you are.. since you are not I am assuming you are writing that for some thought process of yours that goes into a general direction and not a personal towards me... so that I can save myself time writing something like: "I don't expect people to fit my version of the world. I don't think a person like that could function in our society... "
I am therefore not going to respond to other similar things in your message like expecting people to be ideal members of society and such. For shamanic purposes it is not about this anyway. It should be clear we are trying to look towards a layer that is a bit underneath this psycho-societal stuff.
In the world of energy there is a 'right' way and a 'wrong' way and maybe there are more right ways and more wrong ways.. and one needs to be in the situation to experience it. The 'right' way being a way that respects or flows. If you go into that layer you will not find much that is bent. The things I mentioned above were examples of things I found to be bent. No talk about right and wrong in society and the psychobabble view of the world can change that for me. No amount of leftist 'we all got the right to say what we want and do what we want' and 'any response I have is valid' or 'I have the right to feel anything and express whatever I feel' can touch this layer of energy either. One cannot say or do whatever they want, nor can they respond in whatever way they want... that is if one is living form the deeper layers (or maybe one would say one would never want to respond in those bent ways if they were acting from that layer)... people can only do that when they are disconnected and then they create bends. I think any sensitive person feels when they hit a bend of other people or themselves even.
Maybe try to remember the first time this happened to you when you were a child. Soak the experience in how it felt when you bumped against the bend of another person. It will help you identify it in general. You can also look back at how that affected you and you energy body. We all change a little after this first encounter. Something in us whether we want to or not is affected by it.
You will understand it is not about judgment or about how people should be allowed to have different responses.
Ad Lonewolf, I read everything he wrote (or almost everything)... I sorted most of the stuff at this site and resorted it again. I am not making the same conclusions you are though
. I dare say I don't dwell on peoples issues though so I might have forgotten the details that you used to make your conclusions. Plus you gotta know LW also liked to put on a show sometimes. Not all that he said was coming from a place of belief on his side of the screen... he would want to create a certain situation for people here because he considered it an important part of learning. It is pretty clear to me LW is not here under an account that posts. Either way I do not think it matters much. You mention it as if it did
.Any good sorcerer would listen to the underlayer. Again, the part that is best to be attentive to in order to makes sure things are not bent. One does not even need to know why one is doing something as long as one does it in sync with the underlayer. I have had this happen a few times. I always prefer to know too ofc, but even if not, if one just acts in sync and instinctively, later on one will find it to have been a very good thing. (at least based on my personal experience)
I'm sorry I did not have time to respond more, and in the places I still wanted to. Hope to do so at a different time...
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 11-04-2017
Pixie wrote:Lol. Everyone has a lot they could heal if they look deep enough. The most dangerous point to be at is to suffer without realizing there are issues. Denial is something many on the warriors path attempt to side-step. It is far easier to tell someone else to heal than it is to heal oneself. That brings up a good topic of how to hold space for others to heal. Non-judgment and openness to exploration are great tactics to employ. I can think of many who I would be willing to heal myself in front of... sadly, none of them are at Sorcery at this time. It takes an open heart to hold a space for others to heal themselves.
Of course it is easy to tell other people what to do
. I am wary of how you express thing about who you are willing to heal yourself in front of. It sound very strange to me. Like who you are willing to masturbate in front of or something lol. Sry for the crude analogy. But it works in the sense like.... Why should I heal in front of anybody? Seems a strange thought.
You mean people you feel you can be vulnerable in front of or some such? That is often less about other people, it is more about you and where you are at. Making it sound like people at Sorcery are lacking is not exactly fair to us. When the student is ready, the teacher appears...
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 11-05-2017
watergaze wrote:
We have a pretty different view
. I do not think the goal is the same as you do - based on how you talk. Being able to experience different APs is not the goal of it all. Many can be jealous, angry, mean... if this is all it takes then everyone has reached the goal already. But, being a nobody does help a lot in allowing different AP shifts. Having no image to defend is really nice. It is not about judgment what I said but about energy and awareness, for a lack of better words. You talk of mental illness from the perspective of this society, I do not. Or rather I would but society does not have the same definition of dysfunction. If you are a XYZ and you go to work, keep clean, can feed and clothe yourself and obey the law and pay your taxes, you are functional. However, if you are a functional XYZ you are still an XYZ and you are ill. And I'm not just talking about mental illnesses here. Kinda like a pedophile is still a pedophile (if they have the urges or a pedophile - or do you say it all about acts?), an alcoholic still an alcoholic, etc. I do not subscribe to your view that acknowledging that a different type of health exists or can exist constitutes a mental illness
. Makes no sense whatsoever. Unless hm maybe it does.. like psychologists and psychiatrists would be mentally ill for believing they can cure their patients? You speak in general so if you are addressing me it would be better to know you are.. since you are not I am assuming you are writing that for some thought process of yours that goes into a general direction and not a personal towards me... so that I can save myself time writing something like: "I don't expect people to fit my version of the world. I don't think a person like that could function in our society... "
I am therefore not going to respond to other similar things in your message like expecting people to be ideal members of society and such. For shamanic purposes it is not about this anyway. It should be clear we are trying to look towards a layer that is a bit underneath this psycho-societal stuff.
In the world of energy there is a 'right' way and a 'wrong' way and maybe there are more right ways and more wrong ways.. and one needs to be in the situation to experience it. The 'right' way being a way that respects or flows. If you go into that layer you will not find much that is bent. The things I mentioned above were examples of things I found to be bent. No talk about right and wrong in society and the psychobabble view of the world can change that for me. No amount of leftist 'we all got the right to say what we want and do what we want' and 'any response I have is valid' or 'I have the right to feel anything and express whatever I feel' can touch this layer of energy either. One cannot say or do whatever they want, nor can they respond in whatever way they want... that is if one is living form the deeper layers (or maybe one would say one would never want to respond in those bent ways if they were acting from that layer)... people can only do that when they are disconnected and then they create bends. I think any sensitive person feels when they hit a bend of other people or themselves even.
Maybe try to remember the first time this happened to you when you were a child. Soak the experience in how it felt when you bumped against the bend of another person. It will help you identify it in general. You can also look back at how that affected you and you energy body. We all change a little after this first encounter. Something in us whether we want to or not is affected by it.
You will understand it is not about judgment or about how people should be allowed to have different responses.
Ad Lonewolf, I read everything he wrote (or almost everything)... I sorted most of the stuff at this site and resorted it again. I am not making the same conclusions you are though
. I dare say I don't dwell on peoples issues though so I might have forgotten the details that you used to make your conclusions. Plus you gotta know LW also liked to put on a show sometimes. Not all that he said was coming from a place of belief on his side of the screen... he would want to create a certain situation for people here because he considered it an important part of learning. It is pretty clear to me LW is not here under an account that posts. Either way I do not think it matters much. You mention it as if it did
.Any good sorcerer would listen to the underlayer. Again, the part that is best to be attentive to in order to makes sure things are not bent. One does not even need to know why one is doing something as long as one does it in sync with the underlayer. I have had this happen a few times. I always prefer to know too ofc, but even if not, if one just acts in sync and instinctively, later on one will find it to have been a very good thing. (at least based on my personal experience)
I'm sorry I did not have time to respond more, and in the places I still wanted to. Hope to do so at a different time...
Let me make it simple. If someone is suicidal, they are bent. It does not help to mention to that individual they are bent. It is clear to many a bent is present. Everyone is bent somewhere and telling them to straighten out does them even less benefit than an unethical psychiatrist/psychologist. I'm aware we disagree on many perspectives, it's why I went out of my way to avoid too much interaction with you. Your AP is coming from a place of too much mind for my preference and so I've always kept a safe enough distance from you. Not because you are bad or I am bad or because you're bent or I'm bent, but because we're incompatible for the tonal.
On that note, I won't respond further as it's a waste of time for us both.
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 11-05-2017
watergaze wrote:
Of course it is easy to tell other people what to do
. I am wary of how you express thing about who you are willing to heal yourself in front of. It sound very strange to me. Like who you are willing to masturbate in front of or something lol. Sry for the crude analogy. But it works in the sense like.... Why should I heal in front of anybody? Seems a strange thought.
You mean people you feel you can be vulnerable in front of or some such? That is often less about other people, it is more about you and where you are at. Making it sound like people at Sorcery are lacking is not exactly fair to us. When the student is ready, the teacher appears...
Ah, you're right. I'm totally not ready and so my teacher hasn't manifested. That must be what happened.
I can't explain more to you because you require so much explained that it tires me out. I admire Sen for his ability to listen to you attempt to understand people and events. He's so patient with you in ways I never could be. Maybe Sen would like to explain what I said to you; I trust him to explain me accurately enough based on what I say.
I'll summarize for you what I meant: people heal with those they trust. I did not trust you. I trusted Sen and JJ. I don't regret my choices. So, according to you, I masturbated in front of Sen and JJ -- which is pretty much true, spiritually and whatnot. Sen and JJ were safe spaces and people I let into somewhat intimate areas. Considering that the cosmic vagina rules shamanism, masturbating in front of people is kind of a big deal. I digress.
You should masturbate in front of anyone of your choosing. I've no interest in your vagina. Go forth and be free.
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 11-05-2017
hehe
. thnx for the humor. And, sry, did not mean to offend you. In retrospect, the masturbating comment was maybe a bit too much, though it did get my message across. People heal. period. Alone, in groups, with others who are there to help them, etc.
I did not mean that you are masturbating in front of JJ and Sen, but the way you were talking about not allowing others to see you had a weird wtf taste as if you were talking about something, well, like masturbating. Hence the masturbating analogy, to help you understand how it came across. From your response I gather you understood it very well, so the analogy served its purpose in that sense. But then it offended you and we got to where we are now. Oh well...
Ask yourself why you felt the need to put before my eyes that you could not 'masturbate' (i.e. heal) in front of me. I mean really what is the purpose of saying that? Why do you need to tell me this? Given also that I am aware we do not have this kind of relationship (nor is it something you could decide on on your own) - This is what I mean - saying it with that analogy shows you better what my issue with you saying that was. What do you feel I am supposed to do with that info?
. You are not around for my healing process either. It should not be a surprise this is not where we are at you and me. So it is strange that you would feel like commenting on this.
It is like you are trying to poke me and get me to think I have somehow failed you. Or that I am insufficient, not up to your standards of a healing companion
. I don't know why you do that, but it sure is strange. From my side of thinds we are not at this spot, you and me, not because you felt me insufficient, though that might be a part of it ofc. What is even more interesting is that you do not account for the fact that I see you going through this process
. When you are around. And then there is the thing that even if I am not there in the room that you 'masturbate' in, I can still see you when you come out . So, the matter of what I see or not is a bit more complicated than whether you actually make the conscious choice of accepting me as someone you can have around in this private room of yours . ----
Pixie wrote:If someone is suicidal, they are bent. It does not help to mention to that individual they are bent. It is clear to many a bent is present. Everyone is bent somewhere and telling them to straighten out does them even less benefit than an unethical psychiatrist/psychologist.
I surely do not have patients whom I tell this as a diagnosis. It does not matter how many other people see there is something bent, as long as the person themselves keeps being oblivious or is lying to themselves about stuff. Anyway, in order to have such a conversation with a person, few things need to be in place. And then, believe it or not, if you get to the bent, the specific part not just in general, it is helpful to know about it. This is what self-stalking is all about. It is very beautiful and satisfying to see people, whose awareness has reached to these areas, gradually change towards more stability. It is one of the most satisfying areas in my life that people around me (that I found receptive and wanting of change) have been able to tackle these parts of themselves with a nudge or with a bit of my input and help - if they asked for it. Not to mention how grateful I am that it could help me when I was in most need (I'd be a very different person otherwise). It is the nicest feeling in the world to see someone heal and grow before your eyes (no matter if you helped a bit or not). In that sense talking to me about how that does not work is futile
. It is not so much about it not working as about the person whom it does not work for. People are different and can benefit from different approaches. This one, however, clearly works. But maybe its not for you and yours.----
Pixie wrote:Ah, you're right. I'm totally not ready and so my teacher hasn't manifested. That must be what happened.
I was using 'teacher' as a metaphor. You were ready because you found people to be vulnerable with and to help you heal. And when you are ready for the next round someone like that will be around again. I'm not sure if you are trying to make me feel bad that I am not one of those people. I do not need to jump into stuff where I am not needed or supposed to be. I am glad you found ways to learn and heal, this is something I like to see around. I do not mind being a witness from further off, it is actually really nice to be one. And I do not need to see you going through the process to find it nice when you come out of your intimate room (with whoever it is you feel can be there with you) and seeing you after that. Cause then I see it anyway
.Pixie wrote:I admire Sen for his ability to listen to you attempt to understand people and events. He's so patient with you in ways I never could be. Maybe Sen would like to explain what I said to you; I trust him to explain me accurately enough based on what I say.
You have said similar a couple of times now and I have found it weird every time
.You know how Sen is different with different people, the more bents the person has the more fluid and less direct Sen becomes to not hit these bends (cause it is a sane reflex not to want to hit/bump into stuff), plus he also accommodates the other type of bents that are not in that person but elsewhere. It is a very good skill, but sadly the people can then ignore the message because it had to go through a few weird curves to get to the person's ears and they can just decide not to hear certain parts it carries. I would have liked to say that you should have talked to Sen and let him tell you how he actually sees things for real
. But you would not have gotten a straight answer . That makes it kinda funny and futile to even try . One could say that it can be hard to be directly honest with people. But the fact is also that it is rarely worth it for people to make themselves open to battle like that. So people like Andrew go in an extremely roundabout way. They often do not tell you what they actually think, not really, because they allow you to carry a different message from their words. They do not tell you that is not what they meant, they leave you with your version. A lot of the message does not go through like that because you can ignore parts and then go on with your version/judgments as you like.Sen's excuse is then that he did tell you... but I tell him that since he knew for a fact that you did not actually hear/take in an important part of the message that it is as if he had not told you. That he should tell you directly so there is no room for you to look away from it. But he won't do that. It would put too much pressure on himself (and even with that policy of his he had too much pressure on himself, so one cannot blame him, nor would I want to). And in that sense, he can pick his battles. It's his choice. You however, are then left to run with whatever it is you (mis)understood and are able to push Sen to a spot where he has no place being (but he lets you).
Do I need to defend my trustworthiness?
Not really... Even though I have a very trustworthy view of myself, I tell it to shut up haha.It is always fascinating and terrible at the same time how people attempt to understand others based on who they are themselves. What you are saying about me here shows more about you than it does about me. I was not the one who talked of not understanding people and their emotions (if anything I was the one who said almost the exact opposite, about how I could connect to people too easily and see the intricate and detailed shades of their states). I would appreciate if you did not put stuff on me that does not belong there. You might go to some case when I said I do not understand something linked to you... but that is hardly the same thing. (Plus saying something like that is also a maneuver to get people to explain - i.e. to think about something.) See how you made one little thing into a judgment about the whole person (while disregarding other information - seen and heard)?
If we go into the area of expressing what tires us about one another..... You comment on other people so much while using your judgments. That to me is tiring. Even when I do not see where/if they are inaccurate... it is tiring. The thing is, even if your judgments were accurate... why do you feel the need to say them?
I cannot have a discussion with you about well anything without talking about (ex)member's of this site and their issues. Like here we cannot talk about health without you mentioning LW's mental issues (real or imagined). I do not want to analyze kris, shamanka, mornings son, silver wind, etc etc. If you want to talk about issues, talk about your issues. Sometimes it is useful to mention people we both know to make sure we know what we are talking about (to check we are on the same page), but with you it is waaaay beyond that (like there was no need to bring LW into our talk here). You enjoy judging people. I dislike doing so. I want people to have space and not narrow them down to my judgements.
Ofc I also like talking to you. There is no one color - black or white - here for me. I also can find it worthwhile to talk to you and others and even when there are differences I am not one to despair by default
, because in certain type of differences there is learning potential. And that is what this place is about . Nevertheless, since you decided you don't wanna interact anymore... it is what it is . No need to respond to my message here, actually, it would be better if you did not. Otherwise you are just inviting another reply. Enjoy interacting with those people you find worthwhile . Over and out .
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 11-05-2017
watergaze wrote:
hehe
. thnx for the humor. And, sry, did not mean to offend you. In retrospect, the masturbating comment was maybe a bit too much, though it did get my message across. Your masturbating comment hit the nail on the head and gave quite a comical opening. That was enjoyable and the first time I could write something I found to be hilarious. I appreciate that opening.
People heal. period. Alone, in groups, with others who are there to help them, etc.
I did not mean that you are masturbating in front of JJ and Sen, but the way you were talking about not allowing others to see you had a weird wtf taste as if you were talking about something, well, like masturbating. Hence the masturbating analogy, to help you understand how it came across. From your response I gather you understood it very well, so the analogy served its purpose in that sense. But then it offended you and we got to where we are now. Oh well...
I may have a different pespective of sex than you, hence why I'm not offended at the comparison of healing with masturbation. That's rather relevant. What was offensive was your ignorance to understand anothers perspective and no amount of talking or mental masturbation makes one empathic. That's something done with the heart and the line of questioning was mental masturbation. I'm tired of mental masturbators--I've had too much of those types of exchanges that I've filled my quota for that type of masturbation. What does that say about me though? That I've filled that quota, that I learned those lessons, that I'm tired of those lessons, why did I require those lessons? I think I needed to understand that where I wanted to go was not along that path--that there is more to understanding than the mind. That was a meaningful lesson you helped to teach me and I appreciate acquring the skills to move me beyond a single mode of knowledge. In retrospect, my healing was quite open. I try to masturbate with everyone one I meet and while some aren't open to these exchanges, I move on to the next person. Sometimes I attempt group masturbation events and while those are satisfying, they can lead to other issues like STDs if it moves beyond simple masturbation. Once group-think begins to settle in, it's time to sever ties to avoid being jizzed on. Sex being an analogy for spirituality, of course.
Ask yourself why you felt the need to put before my eyes that you could not 'masturbate' (i.e. heal) in front of me. I mean really what is the purpose of saying that? Why do you need to tell me this? Given also that I am aware we do not have this kind of relationship (nor is it something you could decide on on your own) - This is what I mean - saying it with that analogy shows you better what my issue with you saying that was. What do you feel I am supposed to do with that info?
. Why tell you something that upsets you and makes you talk more? Oh, I don't know. Probably because I wanted a response. I needed your attention for a moment (again, I know, I do this often with you). Your response here was a good one. It was fast, insightful, you prompted me to use a higher level of introspection on my motives. Those are all good points. I responded in the above paragraph as to my own healing. I think I'm just using you at the moment, to pleasure myself. Thanks for allowing yourself to be present for the experience.
You are not around for my healing process either. It should not be a surprise this is not where we are at you and me. So it is strange that you would feel like commenting on this.
You need many things explained and you often say things and people are strange. Why you feel the need to tell me I'm strange or how I communicate is strange almost baffles me. Yes, I know you lack understanding for some of the things I do or say. I find you peculiar at times. There, the basis of our understanding of one another. If you're truly as confused as you often claim to have been, I suggest you study sociology or psychology to better understand the motivation of others. There are fields of science available for you as resources. I don't know how much time Sen has to explain, at length, the birds and the bees. Nature. How the world turns.
It is like you are trying to poke me and get me to think I have somehow failed you. Or that I am insufficient, not up to your standards of a healing companion
. I don't know why you do that, but it sure is strange. From my side of thinds we are not at this spot, you and me, not because you felt me insufficient, though that might be a part of it ofc. Yes, this is what I had done and you overly responded. I'm also overly responding to you now. It's sort of a cycle. I did find you not up to my personal standards of a companion; but honestly, that means nothing. It doesn't mean you fail as a person. It just means we're not compatible. I probably mentioned it for a few reasons, one of which is mental masturbation over the fact that I wish you had been a compatible companion. I don't find many compatible. I miss spiritual intimacy. That was more a reflection on my end. A remorse for unmet potential. The acknowledgement that it was over and had no future. An emotional sadness, while an emotional longing. I think about things like that--what happened, how to adjust for the next person, whether or not I want there to be a next person. Loving people is hard when they're behaving like brats (as I'm sure you're aware). Some consider me a brat, and from their perspectives, I agree with them. This whole social aspect of living is quite complex and I'm moreso reflecting on a failed opportunity and the emotions it has left me with. Some sadness, anger (mostly at myself for failure to recognize an incompatibility), appreciation for the knowledge learned, acknowledgment for the growth that occurred, reflection of how to do things better next time.... those sorts of things.
What is even more interesting is that you do not account for the fact that I see you going through this process
. When you are around. And then there is the thing that even if I am not there in the room that you 'masturbate' in, I can still see you when you come out . So, the matter of what I see or not is a bit more complicated than whether you actually make the conscious choice of accepting me as someone you can have around in this private room of yours . I realize you're watching. Believe me, you're not the first to observe my masturbation sessions
I'm quite open with many aspects, but I'm also not open in other ways. Yes, you mainly get to see me come out of rooms when I'm done masturbating and it's rather interesting you enjoy being that sort of observer. I also enjoy observing others. We are similar in that sense. ----
Pixie wrote:If someone is suicidal, they are bent. It does not help to mention to that individual they are bent. It is clear to many a bent is present. Everyone is bent somewhere and telling them to straighten out does them even less benefit than an unethical psychiatrist/psychologist.
I surely do not have patients whom I tell this as a diagnosis. It does not matter how many other people see there is something bent, as long as the person themselves keeps being oblivious or is lying to themselves about stuff. Anyway, in order to have such a conversation with a person, few things need to be in place. And then, believe it or not, if you get to the bent, the specific part not just in general, it is helpful to know about it. This is what self-stalking is all about. It is very beautiful and satisfying to see people, whose awareness has reached to these areas, gradually change towards more stability. It is one of the most satisfying areas in my life that people around me (that I found receptive and wanting of change) have been able to tackle these parts of themselves with a nudge or with a bit of my input and help - if they asked for it. Not to mention how grateful I am that it could help me when I was in most need (I'd be a very different person otherwise). It is the nicest feeling in the world to see someone heal and grow before your eyes (no matter if you helped a bit or not). In that sense talking to me about how that does not work is futile
. It is not so much about it not working as about the person whom it does not work for. People are different and can benefit from different approaches. This one, however, clearly works. But maybe its not for you and yours.I agree. People are different and benefit from different approaches. Your method does work, but it won't be beneficial for everyone. There are perfectly "good" people in the world. Yet, they are not compatible with everyone and respecting those people, even when they are vastly different, is important. Otherwise we wind up suicidal over people on the internet and that's extremely unfortunate. That should never occur. Yet, it does. When someone is bent, they must learn to bend and not break. Breaking hurts. A lot. It's also very painful to observe another experience overextension and nearing breakage. Then again, people who engage in a spiritual awakening often endure suffering. So, I don't know if it helps any, but suffering does make people stronger. I agree, it should be their choice on what people experience. Then again, what if it's the spiritual identify of a person making those decisions for the tonal self..... it can become complicated quickly when determining whether it's others bringing us an experience or whether it's ourselves bringing us experiences.
Pixie wrote:I admire Sen for his ability to listen to you attempt to understand people and events. He's so patient with you in ways I never could be. Maybe Sen would like to explain what I said to you; I trust him to explain me accurately enough based on what I say.
You have said similar a couple of times now and I have found it weird every time
.You find many things weird
You however, are then left to run with whatever it is you (mis)understood and are able to push Sen to a spot where he has no place being (but he lets you).
True. All of what you said regarding Sen.
Do I need to defend my trustworthiness?
Not really... Even though I have a very trustworthy view of myself, I tell it to shut up haha.You are mostly trustworthy, yes.
Ofc I also like talking to you. There is no one color - black or white - here for me. I also can find it worthwhile to talk to you and others and even when there are differences I am not one to despair by default
, because in certain type of differences there is learning potential. And that is what this place is about . Nevertheless, since you decided you don't wanna interact anymore... it is what it is . No need to respond to my message here, actually, it would be better if you did not. Otherwise you are just inviting another reply. Enjoy interacting with those people you find worthwhile . Over and out .Too late, I already responded :/
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 11-12-2017
I heard a quote today that says very nicely what I was trying to say in one of my previous posts:
Jiddu Krishnamurti: "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 11-12-2017
In one sense (perspective) it's true. To be "normal" in a society that is profoundly sick only makes that person sick.
In an alternative sense, it's false. Sometimes it takes a very healthy person to call bullsh*t on the sick version of "normal". Well-adjusted could mean functional and functionality is important when trying to incite change from the norm.
I see the perspective you were coming from. It's logical. I think replacing "well adjusted" with a different word would make it more efficient. Maybe read it as: It is no measure of health to be an enabler to a profoundly sick society." Something along those lines. The imprecision of language gets me.
Something I saw today that I enjoyed:
the pathology of psychosciences - watergaze - 11-14-2017
Pixie Dust wrote:
In one sense (perspective) it's true. To be "normal" in a society that is profoundly sick only makes that person sick.
In an alternative sense, it's false. Sometimes it takes a very healthy person to call bullsh*t on the sick version of "normal". Well-adjusted could mean functional and functionality is important when trying to incite change from the norm.
I see the perspective you were coming from. It's logical. I think replacing "well adjusted" with a different word would make it more efficient. Maybe read it as: It is no measure of health to be an enabler to a profoundly sick society." Something along those lines. The imprecision of language gets me.
I see what you mean. I would say though that a healthy person cannot adjust well to a sick society. They can adjust, but they will not have a sense of wellness in such a society. Things will be out of balance. But in this sense, it is an interpretation of what 'well adjusted' means.
(And, if the circumstances /unhealthiness of the society is extreme, I would wonder if one can adjust/ fit in at all, never mind well. But if we went into the realm of warriors, of course, a good warrior would be able to fit in on the outside appearance)
I would argue functional = adjusted. Well adjusted means the individual fits like a glove into the society. And not just outwardly but inwardly - otherwise such a fit would not be possible (unless we go again into some extremely skilled warrior realm).
So, it seems to me both of us have the same idea. We just use language/ the idea differently when we talk.
when I think of the term 'enabler' then it becomes a bit obscured because anyone who goes along with something is an enabler. If a bystander does not intervene in something that is happening their inaction is enabling the thing to happen. In this sense, a person who is not an enabler of an unhealthy society has to act in a way that they try to better the society. In doing so, one must inadvertently be at odds with a part of this society - the part that is not healthy. And then the question is: can someone who is well adjusted to a society be at odds with it?
---
The pyjama picture -- I kid you not, that is what I think when I see people in pyjamas
(except I do not call myself stupid)
the pathology of psychosciences - serloco - 11-14-2017
It reminds me of genius. Seeing and knowing how stupid people are. Seeing intent and knowing how not to get sick in a world where people constantly intend illness and death onto themselves and others! If only they had a lil awareness. And its not like the awareness isnt out there in the world to find. Its just that people are sheep, and they follow the media and who controls the media?
the pathology of psychosciences - Pixie Dust - 11-14-2017
watergaze wrote:
when I think of the term 'enabler' then it becomes a bit obscured because anyone who goes along with something is an enabler. If a bystander does not intervene in something that is happening their inaction is enabling the thing to happen. In this sense, a person who is not an enabler of an unhealthy society has to act in a way that they try to better the society. In doing so, one must inadvertently be at odds with a part of this society - the part that is not healthy. And then the question is: can someone who is well adjusted to a society be at odds with it?
My favorite question you pose is: can someone who is well adjusted to a society be at odds with it?
That sounds like a syzygy. It seems possible, but an outcome that requires a high level of skill to be successfully achieved. Unconditional love for individuals or a society can get a person to that state. Teachers and other leaders are often caught in this situation. They love the people while recognizing there's progress that should be made. It's loving the people but wanting to improve the system to better benefit the people. It's an impersonal AP to attain.
Imagine having a class full of as*hole students. They aren't "bad" people but they make bad choices frequently. Many may be from low-income families, living with grandparents because the parents made awful life choices, or maybe they're from abusive backgrounds. Perhaps the students are further put at a disadvantage because they haven't learned the foundations necessary to read (phonetic skills that are non-existent). It's frequent to see students slip through the cracks in public education. A teacher receiving such a mess of a class would be facing a lot of frustration from the students. It's frustrating for students who are asked to function at a level that is much higher than where they're capable of performing. For people struggling with their emotions, adding that sort of expectation is not going to help the situation.
It is important to accept where students are at (to remain realistic) but to also formulate a goal of how to bridge where they're at to where they should be. Progress, any amount, is a good direction. That's where the unconditional aspect comes into play. Love who they are at a basic level of being a member of humanity, but also fight for them. Fight the system that is working against them by educating them and helping them to self-advocate and acquire the knowledge they'll need to survive in life. Teach them that they are capable of achieving whatever they want to set out to do and give them the tools to make them successful. Teach them how to be critical thinkers, problem solvers, and to be independent. Love them enough to have authentic conversations with them and show them how to value themselves.
We're all in the same sh*tshow. We can behave like black crabs, every man for himself, and no one gets out. Or. We can build leaders to tip the entire bucket onto its side. It is the responsibility of every healer to help those who are at the bottom of the bucket get out. Some aren't strong enough yet, but if we build enough warriors, we can show what strength means.
Some are built for this sort of thing. Others less so. Often, the warriors pave the way for those who hold a different form of knowledge. It's our duty to protect one another when the opportunity presents itself. No man is an island. We need one another. So yeah, I think we can be well adjusted and at odds with a society. It's the same thing as loving someone on a soul level, but being annoyed with the tonal self.
the pathology of psychosciences - Guest - 08-21-2019