06-28-2011, 12:00 AM
Hi Kaomea,
what you call Glossolalia seems to be what I called "the language of the soul 'gibberish'" in my previous post . Checked out the wiki link, did not read it all but it sure seems like it.
Kaomea wrote:What I've wondered about is how this relates to dreaming. There are some people who've dreamt in different languages and even talked in their sleep of languages which can't be identified. What I've heard it compared to is glossolalia, more info for the extra curious can find it here
Well, looking at 'the language of the soul' and dreaming does give us more space to move into in the discussion. But I have to say I am not very clear on what should already be called dreaming and what not yet . For example are visions dreaming? I'd say yes, not such a deep form of it but yes, it is somewhere between the wake and dream. Or if one moves the AP to a different position while awake, for example to see luminosity, is that dreaming? A lot of people say yes, I do not know. And then this 3rd attention, a lot of people call this a state that just puts dreaming into waking life. So basically seeing things while doing normal life stuff. I am not sure what is what, so hard for me to limit my answer to dreaming (when I am not so sure what is all under that term)..
Anyway, might be that what results in 'the language of the soul' comes from a shift somewhere. It is not the ordinary AP position that we have in common life. Having said that I am moving to the night dreaming, so to speak .
First of all one has to clear away the fact that often when people talk in dreams we do not understand them well and they do not translate the words they have in their head into speech in a correct way. In the sense that they want to say one thing and say something else or something that is not a word. It is like a failed connection in the center that connects stuff to language in the usual way . But it is also the beautiful way of unexpected paths that get us out of the paths we always walk on. Still, one should keep in mind that this person might really be thinking in his own native language but speaking gibberish. In this sense, since the person is actually thinking normal, just failing to put it out in the normal way, I would not consider this 'the language of the spirit' - what I understand under that I will get to in a bit and also I am not saying that speaking from dreaming cannot be 'the language of the spirit,' just that it often is not.
A theory: It could be that this person is by chance on a position of another language, I mean the odds of that happening might seem pretty slim, but who knows.. and thus the person is talking a language that he or she does not really know... But if it could happen in this way then it must be something very powerful, because even if I am at a place of a language I do not know just the whole language out of the blue. I might guess something here and there but that's pretty much it.
It seems that when we move into a certain direction with the AP it is harder to understand language. And from that position it is harder to express thoughts into the usually understood language as well. Did it ever happen to you that when somebody woke you up and was telling you something you just heard sound and not words? Did happen to me . Here I was just not on the common AP yet. Also I heard a person who was woken up like this speak gibberish .
However, it also happened to me quite unexpectedly at a lecture. I was sitting in the class waiting for the lecture to start. Then the teacher started talking and I just did not understand a word he was saying. Then I realized it is because he is talking in another language than what I expected, so I made a shift and I understood him again.. Happened to me once with TV too, but that was in my home country and my native language. Switched it on and gibberish, so I switch and no gibberish . So language is totally a thing of the AP. This is why it is a fact that language is a way to look at the world. In my country we have a saying: "How many languages you know, that many times you are a person." I find this quite fitting and insightful . The saying has more than one level to it. And on the energetic level it is a total fact . By learning a language we are learning a different AP and when speaking other languages not only do we perceive the world a bit differently we ourselves are different. So for sorcerers that would be translated into: "from that many AP positions you can experience the world" .
And to put in the dreaming aspect into this: when we hold the position of the AP in usual position of a culture, we are actually dreaming a dream of that culture's world/reality. As you can see, I can put dreaming even into what is clearly an explanation of stalking of the so called ordinary reality .
Just a few nights ago I woke up with two gibberish words but I knew they were important and that I must have understood them to know that. But I just could not understand them in that form, I think it was the failed translation from one AP to the other - like me repeating an incoherent sound from the TV while having lost that AP where I understood it. To take this meaning with me I need to relocate it/translate it to the AP I am moving to. Imagine what a job a good interpreter has . I read that the way their brains function is not dissimilar to schizophrenics. They have fewer working hours and retire early, a lot of them also drink a lot to relieve stress or who knows what . A good interpreter must be impeccably fluid between a few fixed APs. Jumping here and there in less than a blink of an eye.
Stalking myself when I am unable to understand a language that I actually understand tells me that I was holding a certain position and that I did not shift my AP automatically, was somewhat more fixed on that AP. Had to intend to understand to move it elsewhere. I am finding translating to be more difficult than before. It is interesting to see.. because I have put focus in my life on becoming more grounded - because I was not so good at getting myself fully into a fixed spot. Thus I see I am improving . I will then have to focus on gaining more fluidity . But first I need to know how to ground myself where I want to, or wherever if I want to. Learning stuff does sometimes get in the way of normal life. Of course it is also very much about practice. practice makes master .
To get back to 'the language of the soul'..
Kao wrote:There is power and intent behind language and also the lack of language.
I also think it is about intent and power. This is how it ties to the spirit. Language is a powerful carrier of intent. So here it depends on the medium that the speaker chooses. For some things 'the language of the soul' is truly best. It is able to endow the speech with the speaker's/spirit's intent in a strong, powerful way. If we take it that the center of feelings is more active during 'the language of the soul' (as they write in the wiki article) then we see that it can even be explained in a scientific fashion. For me feelings help me carry myself to the dreams that I have left already, and can therefore also take me elsewhere (just need to find the best plane to ride on - what I call keys or (foot)prints). My silent feeling carries my intent and gets me where I wish. When the person is speaking 'the language of the soul' he or she is not thinking of how they will say what they want to express. They just feel and want to express and it expresses itself naturally. So here I feel the intent is in its purer form, but does not mean it is always best to work with.
The 'language of the soul' flows directly. Connects to the inner and flows out in language in the purest possible way. It is a very cleansing experience to do this. The intent to communicate emotions is coming out in its purest form and that is why it is called 'the language of the soul'. It is the best way for our soul to express itself, its feelings. And also our souls when they listen they understand it even if we do not, because they get these feelings that carry the intent.. And they can understand that. If we have a good connection to our soul then we can understand it too.
I am quite sure that this 'language' is among the most ancient tongues/forms of speech that exist.
Coming back to dreaming, once when I was ill and had a very hard time controlling my states of awareness and was uncontrollably delirious I started speaking Latin from my dream state and as I was waking up from it I heard myself speaking Latin and I wondered at it, because i had only started the course and knew virtually nothing as of yet. I have no idea if what I said was correct or not . I had no idea what I was saying even. Would have wanted to know if I did make any sense, but will never find out. If I go from feeling then I have never spoken it better . I remembered this when you mentioned dreaming, so I have to correct myself on what I said before about Latin never wanting to flow through me. Guess it did at that point. But it doesn't seem to have had a practical, or any other, reason, so I'd still disregard it somewhat . It would make a funny generalization: Want to speak to the spirit of the forest? Speak in its local tongue. Want to speak from a delirium? Speak Latin..
The most local tongue of the forest is actually the sounds in it, animals, birds, trees. That is the language of the forest. Or maybe those are the languages of the forest.
And it occurred to me now that maybe why gods have many names is because there are different names for different APs, different landscapes. So it is that this god is perceived slightly differently and therefore a different name of his might emphasize a slightly different aspect/feeling to him. It is similar with some general words. A translation of the same word into another language word does not always mean that those two words have the same boundaries.
Well, since I have written this we have touched upon similar subjects in the 'exegesis' thread with Bob May. But I still wanted to say something before posting my reply here. But I have ended up saying it in the other thread .
I think it is possible to have an AP where one looks at a world that is unintelligible, observe people talking gibberish and not try to move there where one understands them. One can just let the language flow in sound around them. Do not catch it with the intellect or whatever it is that puts words into meaning. Something similar, though different can be done with the sight, just de-focus, stop translating visual stuff into objects and things. I would call this not doing. And not doing is supposed to lead to the stopping of the world .
Bob May wrote:All I am saying is that from my experience, the meaning of language falling away seems to be a signal of sorts that a person is crossing a specific barrier or veil. The confusion of language at the tower of Babel was a significant place in human consciousness. As was the understanding of other tongues at Pentecost.
So I will just summarize that each language is a position of the AP and the 'language of the soul' would be an AP position as well, as would the 'stopping of the understanding of language'. But those I would say are shifts to a position that is further from the usual. Therefore it is more likely to happen in connection to dreaming / in dreaming. If one wishes to connect to the local landscape might be a good idea to use the local language as languages are connected to the local country/landscape. If one wishes to connect to a mood of some older sorceric practices then it makes sense to use the language that they were using, because it helps connect to that AP position. If one wishes to speak from the here and now most purely then one talks in 'the language of the soul', because it truly is in the moment. It has no history/past that would give it meaning (in an intellectual sense). It is riding the most fresh and flowing energy. It is very liberating.
Well, I have not focused just on Glossolalia and dreaming, but this post helped me express what I think and know and suppose concerning related subjects in a somewhat orderly (and lengthy) fashion .
what you call Glossolalia seems to be what I called "the language of the soul 'gibberish'" in my previous post . Checked out the wiki link, did not read it all but it sure seems like it.
Kaomea wrote:What I've wondered about is how this relates to dreaming. There are some people who've dreamt in different languages and even talked in their sleep of languages which can't be identified. What I've heard it compared to is glossolalia, more info for the extra curious can find it here
Well, looking at 'the language of the soul' and dreaming does give us more space to move into in the discussion. But I have to say I am not very clear on what should already be called dreaming and what not yet . For example are visions dreaming? I'd say yes, not such a deep form of it but yes, it is somewhere between the wake and dream. Or if one moves the AP to a different position while awake, for example to see luminosity, is that dreaming? A lot of people say yes, I do not know. And then this 3rd attention, a lot of people call this a state that just puts dreaming into waking life. So basically seeing things while doing normal life stuff. I am not sure what is what, so hard for me to limit my answer to dreaming (when I am not so sure what is all under that term)..
Anyway, might be that what results in 'the language of the soul' comes from a shift somewhere. It is not the ordinary AP position that we have in common life. Having said that I am moving to the night dreaming, so to speak .
First of all one has to clear away the fact that often when people talk in dreams we do not understand them well and they do not translate the words they have in their head into speech in a correct way. In the sense that they want to say one thing and say something else or something that is not a word. It is like a failed connection in the center that connects stuff to language in the usual way . But it is also the beautiful way of unexpected paths that get us out of the paths we always walk on. Still, one should keep in mind that this person might really be thinking in his own native language but speaking gibberish. In this sense, since the person is actually thinking normal, just failing to put it out in the normal way, I would not consider this 'the language of the spirit' - what I understand under that I will get to in a bit and also I am not saying that speaking from dreaming cannot be 'the language of the spirit,' just that it often is not.
A theory: It could be that this person is by chance on a position of another language, I mean the odds of that happening might seem pretty slim, but who knows.. and thus the person is talking a language that he or she does not really know... But if it could happen in this way then it must be something very powerful, because even if I am at a place of a language I do not know just the whole language out of the blue. I might guess something here and there but that's pretty much it.
It seems that when we move into a certain direction with the AP it is harder to understand language. And from that position it is harder to express thoughts into the usually understood language as well. Did it ever happen to you that when somebody woke you up and was telling you something you just heard sound and not words? Did happen to me . Here I was just not on the common AP yet. Also I heard a person who was woken up like this speak gibberish .
However, it also happened to me quite unexpectedly at a lecture. I was sitting in the class waiting for the lecture to start. Then the teacher started talking and I just did not understand a word he was saying. Then I realized it is because he is talking in another language than what I expected, so I made a shift and I understood him again.. Happened to me once with TV too, but that was in my home country and my native language. Switched it on and gibberish, so I switch and no gibberish . So language is totally a thing of the AP. This is why it is a fact that language is a way to look at the world. In my country we have a saying: "How many languages you know, that many times you are a person." I find this quite fitting and insightful . The saying has more than one level to it. And on the energetic level it is a total fact . By learning a language we are learning a different AP and when speaking other languages not only do we perceive the world a bit differently we ourselves are different. So for sorcerers that would be translated into: "from that many AP positions you can experience the world" .
And to put in the dreaming aspect into this: when we hold the position of the AP in usual position of a culture, we are actually dreaming a dream of that culture's world/reality. As you can see, I can put dreaming even into what is clearly an explanation of stalking of the so called ordinary reality .
Just a few nights ago I woke up with two gibberish words but I knew they were important and that I must have understood them to know that. But I just could not understand them in that form, I think it was the failed translation from one AP to the other - like me repeating an incoherent sound from the TV while having lost that AP where I understood it. To take this meaning with me I need to relocate it/translate it to the AP I am moving to. Imagine what a job a good interpreter has . I read that the way their brains function is not dissimilar to schizophrenics. They have fewer working hours and retire early, a lot of them also drink a lot to relieve stress or who knows what . A good interpreter must be impeccably fluid between a few fixed APs. Jumping here and there in less than a blink of an eye.
Stalking myself when I am unable to understand a language that I actually understand tells me that I was holding a certain position and that I did not shift my AP automatically, was somewhat more fixed on that AP. Had to intend to understand to move it elsewhere. I am finding translating to be more difficult than before. It is interesting to see.. because I have put focus in my life on becoming more grounded - because I was not so good at getting myself fully into a fixed spot. Thus I see I am improving . I will then have to focus on gaining more fluidity . But first I need to know how to ground myself where I want to, or wherever if I want to. Learning stuff does sometimes get in the way of normal life. Of course it is also very much about practice. practice makes master .
To get back to 'the language of the soul'..
Kao wrote:There is power and intent behind language and also the lack of language.
I also think it is about intent and power. This is how it ties to the spirit. Language is a powerful carrier of intent. So here it depends on the medium that the speaker chooses. For some things 'the language of the soul' is truly best. It is able to endow the speech with the speaker's/spirit's intent in a strong, powerful way. If we take it that the center of feelings is more active during 'the language of the soul' (as they write in the wiki article) then we see that it can even be explained in a scientific fashion. For me feelings help me carry myself to the dreams that I have left already, and can therefore also take me elsewhere (just need to find the best plane to ride on - what I call keys or (foot)prints). My silent feeling carries my intent and gets me where I wish. When the person is speaking 'the language of the soul' he or she is not thinking of how they will say what they want to express. They just feel and want to express and it expresses itself naturally. So here I feel the intent is in its purer form, but does not mean it is always best to work with.
The 'language of the soul' flows directly. Connects to the inner and flows out in language in the purest possible way. It is a very cleansing experience to do this. The intent to communicate emotions is coming out in its purest form and that is why it is called 'the language of the soul'. It is the best way for our soul to express itself, its feelings. And also our souls when they listen they understand it even if we do not, because they get these feelings that carry the intent.. And they can understand that. If we have a good connection to our soul then we can understand it too.
I am quite sure that this 'language' is among the most ancient tongues/forms of speech that exist.
Coming back to dreaming, once when I was ill and had a very hard time controlling my states of awareness and was uncontrollably delirious I started speaking Latin from my dream state and as I was waking up from it I heard myself speaking Latin and I wondered at it, because i had only started the course and knew virtually nothing as of yet. I have no idea if what I said was correct or not . I had no idea what I was saying even. Would have wanted to know if I did make any sense, but will never find out. If I go from feeling then I have never spoken it better . I remembered this when you mentioned dreaming, so I have to correct myself on what I said before about Latin never wanting to flow through me. Guess it did at that point. But it doesn't seem to have had a practical, or any other, reason, so I'd still disregard it somewhat . It would make a funny generalization: Want to speak to the spirit of the forest? Speak in its local tongue. Want to speak from a delirium? Speak Latin..
The most local tongue of the forest is actually the sounds in it, animals, birds, trees. That is the language of the forest. Or maybe those are the languages of the forest.
And it occurred to me now that maybe why gods have many names is because there are different names for different APs, different landscapes. So it is that this god is perceived slightly differently and therefore a different name of his might emphasize a slightly different aspect/feeling to him. It is similar with some general words. A translation of the same word into another language word does not always mean that those two words have the same boundaries.
Well, since I have written this we have touched upon similar subjects in the 'exegesis' thread with Bob May. But I still wanted to say something before posting my reply here. But I have ended up saying it in the other thread .
I think it is possible to have an AP where one looks at a world that is unintelligible, observe people talking gibberish and not try to move there where one understands them. One can just let the language flow in sound around them. Do not catch it with the intellect or whatever it is that puts words into meaning. Something similar, though different can be done with the sight, just de-focus, stop translating visual stuff into objects and things. I would call this not doing. And not doing is supposed to lead to the stopping of the world .
Bob May wrote:All I am saying is that from my experience, the meaning of language falling away seems to be a signal of sorts that a person is crossing a specific barrier or veil. The confusion of language at the tower of Babel was a significant place in human consciousness. As was the understanding of other tongues at Pentecost.
So I will just summarize that each language is a position of the AP and the 'language of the soul' would be an AP position as well, as would the 'stopping of the understanding of language'. But those I would say are shifts to a position that is further from the usual. Therefore it is more likely to happen in connection to dreaming / in dreaming. If one wishes to connect to the local landscape might be a good idea to use the local language as languages are connected to the local country/landscape. If one wishes to connect to a mood of some older sorceric practices then it makes sense to use the language that they were using, because it helps connect to that AP position. If one wishes to speak from the here and now most purely then one talks in 'the language of the soul', because it truly is in the moment. It has no history/past that would give it meaning (in an intellectual sense). It is riding the most fresh and flowing energy. It is very liberating.
Well, I have not focused just on Glossolalia and dreaming, but this post helped me express what I think and know and suppose concerning related subjects in a somewhat orderly (and lengthy) fashion .