08-22-2011, 12:00 AM
seesaw wrote:
Bob i just asked my cat to tell me all the secrets of being a cat. She did answer, she mewed at me, but i didnt really understand what she said. Even if i had understood it would have been at a level outside words since frankly i dont speak 'cat'. I can guess what she meant just because i know her. But its a guess.
Sounds like cats don't have too many secrets. Or maybe your cat doesn't know them.
In my past however i did experience a dog 'speaking' to me. Even though they 'spoke' they did it without moving thier cute little mouth or making a sound. It was freaky. It was magical. It was certainly outside language. I got the transmission direct from mind to mind, but even calling this telepathy does not really capture what actually happened. Having experienced this for myself i can say that the word 'telepathy' is a very very poor attempt to describe what happened.
The difference between the two events outlined above is vast.
Yes, it is.
I can only guess what your biblical references are referring to. If the things you quote did in fact happen ie birds talking to me, earth teaching me, again i would have to put this down to something outside language. We might describe these mysterious events as 'seeing' or 'knowing' or 'talking', but thats just reducing the magical to the known so we can discusss it afterwards. When those sorts of things do happen they happen outside language. For me the bible talks in a range of styles. Sometimes metaphorically, sometimes literally. Jesus doing his miracles was literal. The quotes you supply above are metaphorical ways of describing something that is for humans a magical experience.
Sometimes I sit and just listen to the woods next to my house. What it tells me is not in words, but it is a symphony of sorts. Everything is one and connected.
For me magic can be experienced, and even spoken about, but to say that words themselves are magical is to blend aspects of our total possibility into the same area. Doing that risks robbing us of the possibility of experiencing the transcendent on the other side of words.
I see what you are saying here but it is not "mixing" to realize God is in all levels of reality and uses language and has given us language as a tool.
Its curious because this brings up something that has been described as the 'voice of seeing'. This is an automatic explanation that occurs when we do pierce the boundary and experience the other side. Its an explanation that occurs inside the rational speaking parts of us even as we are experiencing stuff 'over the edge'. But even this happens on this side, the known side, the side that deals with language concepts ideas etc.
Ec 3:1
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ec 3:2
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Ec 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ec 3:4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ec 3:5
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ec 3:6
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ec 3:7
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;We have an experience by the practice of silence. Then we share it.
Words are recepticles for ideas. For realities.
Letters are symbols for sounds, ideas and numbers. Words are made of letters. Stacked together the words convey more complex ideas. Allegory and metaphor create a second meaning to those sentences. If you do not know the keys to the second meaning of those sentences and words you cannot understand the deeper meaning intended by the author.
Jesus healed people literally and performed miracles. But the miracles were a "Sign" for us. That our spiritual eyes, ears would be opened etc. That we would be raised from the dead state that we are in.
The voice of seeing is there because we are trying to understand an experience. It is clothing for spiritual ideas. So that we can understand and or share what we learn. It usually happens to me when I am waking. I sit and listen for a half hour or so and learn from it.
God uses the subconscious mind which is predominant during sleep to sort out what we are learning and bring it to the surface.
It is the threshold.
1ki 19:11
And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
1ki 19:12
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
1ki 19:13
And it was so, when Elijah heard it that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
Elijah was in a cave and came and stood in the entering of the cave. This is a "threshold experience." That place where conscious and subconscious "flip"
Bob i just asked my cat to tell me all the secrets of being a cat. She did answer, she mewed at me, but i didnt really understand what she said. Even if i had understood it would have been at a level outside words since frankly i dont speak 'cat'. I can guess what she meant just because i know her. But its a guess.
Sounds like cats don't have too many secrets. Or maybe your cat doesn't know them.
In my past however i did experience a dog 'speaking' to me. Even though they 'spoke' they did it without moving thier cute little mouth or making a sound. It was freaky. It was magical. It was certainly outside language. I got the transmission direct from mind to mind, but even calling this telepathy does not really capture what actually happened. Having experienced this for myself i can say that the word 'telepathy' is a very very poor attempt to describe what happened.
The difference between the two events outlined above is vast.
Yes, it is.
I can only guess what your biblical references are referring to. If the things you quote did in fact happen ie birds talking to me, earth teaching me, again i would have to put this down to something outside language. We might describe these mysterious events as 'seeing' or 'knowing' or 'talking', but thats just reducing the magical to the known so we can discusss it afterwards. When those sorts of things do happen they happen outside language. For me the bible talks in a range of styles. Sometimes metaphorically, sometimes literally. Jesus doing his miracles was literal. The quotes you supply above are metaphorical ways of describing something that is for humans a magical experience.
Sometimes I sit and just listen to the woods next to my house. What it tells me is not in words, but it is a symphony of sorts. Everything is one and connected.
For me magic can be experienced, and even spoken about, but to say that words themselves are magical is to blend aspects of our total possibility into the same area. Doing that risks robbing us of the possibility of experiencing the transcendent on the other side of words.
I see what you are saying here but it is not "mixing" to realize God is in all levels of reality and uses language and has given us language as a tool.
Its curious because this brings up something that has been described as the 'voice of seeing'. This is an automatic explanation that occurs when we do pierce the boundary and experience the other side. Its an explanation that occurs inside the rational speaking parts of us even as we are experiencing stuff 'over the edge'. But even this happens on this side, the known side, the side that deals with language concepts ideas etc.
Ec 3:1
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ec 3:2
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Ec 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ec 3:4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ec 3:5
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ec 3:6
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ec 3:7
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;We have an experience by the practice of silence. Then we share it.
Words are recepticles for ideas. For realities.
Letters are symbols for sounds, ideas and numbers. Words are made of letters. Stacked together the words convey more complex ideas. Allegory and metaphor create a second meaning to those sentences. If you do not know the keys to the second meaning of those sentences and words you cannot understand the deeper meaning intended by the author.
Jesus healed people literally and performed miracles. But the miracles were a "Sign" for us. That our spiritual eyes, ears would be opened etc. That we would be raised from the dead state that we are in.
The voice of seeing is there because we are trying to understand an experience. It is clothing for spiritual ideas. So that we can understand and or share what we learn. It usually happens to me when I am waking. I sit and listen for a half hour or so and learn from it.
God uses the subconscious mind which is predominant during sleep to sort out what we are learning and bring it to the surface.
It is the threshold.
1ki 19:11
And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
1ki 19:12
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
1ki 19:13
And it was so, when Elijah heard it that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
Elijah was in a cave and came and stood in the entering of the cave. This is a "threshold experience." That place where conscious and subconscious "flip"