05-30-2011, 12:00 AM
watergaze wrote:
Bob May wrote:
It passes because of the cycles and it also will pass entirely. It also can be because of problems in life. We all have them.
While we are here beneath a certain level of understanding we must learn to balance the good things with the bad.
Hm .
Bob wrote:
My sixteen year old son had a close friend die just a few weeks ago by his own hand. My son had been planning on spending the night at his house that coming weekend. He was actually the last person who had any contact with his friend by text message the day of his death.
How can my son balance that? Why hadn't this boy had someone to talk to that would instill in him the need to balance his sorrow with something better?
We are surrounded by death and life. Choose life. It is as simple as that but it is an effort to put into practice.
Bob wrote:
We seem to be speaking about balance here.
My teacher always cautioned against wild swings of emotion. To go back and forth from great joy to great sorrow is not balance.
I think I understand your point.
I understand that what I said could be taken from a negative point of view as well. But I also said my emotions were too strong and bordered on pain, which was not a healthy state. I know this all the more now, when they are different and I do not go into these extremes anymore. Emotions are (should be) comfortable, mine are, and yes I agree balance is very important. Still, I see the feeling of sadness for what it is. And if we are healthy still this feeling comes. And as I said it has a practicality to it. I remember DJ said sadness is something like floating around the universe and that we just kind of pick it up because of that (paraphrase, no idea how exactly this was expressed or in what book)
It is hard if something like this happens to a young person, because yes, they are not balanced very well yet (I wasn't and my emotions were strong and painful). My most straining effort went not into dreaming or seeing or any of these 'other worldly' stuff, but into normal life, balancing myself, my emotions, becoming healthier, into cleansing and making myself more whole.
Glad to hear you are not going "overboard" any more. The beginning of our path must be used to strengthen us for the journey ahead. It was with me. I could not understand how unstable I was before I began looking into occult matters. My teacher used to call it "getting our feet on the grund." Don Juan called it the warrior's way.
And yes, we can use emotions. I write songs. My wife says that they are melancholy. Sadness can be a beautiful thing and it resonates with others. A melody can be sad. A harmony can be sad and it has been known for years that minor chords are sad and major chords are happy. In the middle ages some "modes" or chords were actually banned by the Catholic Church as being demonic.
If everything was created by a word, then everything i vibration of some sort or other.
So what is "floating out there" can be tuned into. Just as if you strike a tuning fork in a room the strings of a guitar that are harmonic to that tuning fork will begin to vibrate also.
watergaze wrote:
What would you compare this abyss to in CC's teachings? Is it the loss of human forms? In shamanic terms it would be death I guess, how they die and come back again. When reading your posts I often read Daath as Death . This concept you write about is something totally new, I have no knowledge of it, so I am trying to understand it through what I know..
Bob wrote:
To actually experience something spiritual instead of just reading it or accepting it in theory would be touching on Daath. True experiential knowledge. It has nothing to do with death. It is Revelation. Something of another, higher realm than we ever imagined existed actually touching us. I never knew what it felt like to be a father until I watched my first son being born. Then it was a miracle.
This is an analogy of course, but an appropriate one.
The way you describe it it seems as something we all know/do/experience. Experiencing.. Gaining knowledge through experiencing. Somehow it seemed as something much more mystical when you were writing about it before . Now I am not sure anymore, will have to reread what you wrote.. Though, ok, you saying "true" knowledge makes it a bit more mystical .
There are four worlds and a tree in each world. So, if I see the same Principle happening in the physical or psychological realm as is happening in the Spiritual realms it is no suprise. As above, so below. Mysticism is not "spooky." It is just a study of the way things work. Both visible and invisible things. That is how allegory works. That is the study of the tree of life. The pattern of how things work, whether on the physical, astral/psychological, spiritual or divine. When we understand how things work here in the earth plane, we can surmise how they work in higher planes. And when we actually experience something there we are better equiped to recognise what is happening spiritually.
Bob wrote:
In Revelations Jesus refers to himself as Alpha and Omega. The beginning and end.
Solomon said no man can find out the work of God from beginning to end. He was right.
We must recieve the Spirit of God in order to reach across the abyss. To go from troubled to astonished.
Until then we are operating from the spirit and mind of man.
After that we are operating from the mind of Christ and the Spirit of God.
...
In the Qabalah, that abyss is called Daath, (Knowledge)
This is knowledge that is experiential in it's character. Becoming "one with" something as a man and wife become one body during intercourse.
But to cross that abyss is not possible for "Natural Man."
...
So what is impossible with man is possible with God.
This is the abyss that Solomon came to. But what was not yet available to him is available to us.
We are surrounded by the Kingdom of Heaven.
We must receive the spirit of God in order to reach across the abyss = we must receive the spirit of God in order to reach knowledge through experience..
Before we receive the spirit of God we are operating from the spirit and mind of man.
I guess I was asking about how this receiving of the spirit of God happens, that was the question about losing human form or dying. For me it seemed that is what opens to us the crossing over the abyss - the abyss I could imagine at least . What makes us very close with Spirit - which in my mind kind of resonates with your "receive the spirit of God"
But now from what you tell me it looks like I mixed apples with pears . Could you please just say this in some layman's terms? Are you saying that to have true experiential knowledge we need to receive the spirit of God? What is spirit of God in this sense? How do we receive it?
I am not sure I am very good with analogies . Thank you for the fresh breeze of inspiring ideas though..We recieve the spirit by believing that Jesus is the son of God. That He came from the Father, the Creator. It is as simple as that.
Many believe this and go on about their lives as usual.
But going across the abyss in this life is "optional."
The Spirit can manifest to us in many ways. We can recieve things from the Father through our own mind. Wisdom, understanding ,and other gifts like discernment of spirits, understanding other tongues, signs and wonders, visions and dreams, revelations, etc., Power can come down from above or we can be pulled up and experience other realms.
I have experienced these things.
To me it has always been a burning question in my mind that is difficult to put into words.
What is this all about? There has to be something more than living for 70 or 80 years and raising children and working just to have them do the same thing.
What would be the point in that?
I started out my spiritual studies with the books of Don Juan. I had some life altering experiences. As I got deeper into study I found a teacher who also began with occult studies. He, at an early age was looking for Power, not for selfish reasons but because he was a healer and wanted to help people. He asked a budhist monk what was the most powerful form of magic. He was told by the monk that it was the Qabala.
I was not interested in power. But in knowing what lies behind the scenes.
I have had some visions and was pulled up very high into a blinding light, I fell into a plane of darkness once that was completely void of light or hope, I have seen angels and Jesus and demons and worn the Coat of Many Colors.
But the flashes of inspiration (Wisdom, knowledge) and growing Understanding seem to be what I have experienced most. And it is these that are most important to me.
The experiences that I had while practicing the Don Juan were strange indeed. You may say that I experienced going across an abyss and experienced a different order of existence.
Some of the experiences I've had after coming to the Qabalah and the bible are of another order of being completely.
"It has not entered the hearts and minds what God has in store for His children."
The things of God are beyond our ability to imagine.
Bob May wrote:
It passes because of the cycles and it also will pass entirely. It also can be because of problems in life. We all have them.
While we are here beneath a certain level of understanding we must learn to balance the good things with the bad.
Hm .
Bob wrote:
My sixteen year old son had a close friend die just a few weeks ago by his own hand. My son had been planning on spending the night at his house that coming weekend. He was actually the last person who had any contact with his friend by text message the day of his death.
How can my son balance that? Why hadn't this boy had someone to talk to that would instill in him the need to balance his sorrow with something better?
We are surrounded by death and life. Choose life. It is as simple as that but it is an effort to put into practice.
Bob wrote:
We seem to be speaking about balance here.
My teacher always cautioned against wild swings of emotion. To go back and forth from great joy to great sorrow is not balance.
I think I understand your point.
I understand that what I said could be taken from a negative point of view as well. But I also said my emotions were too strong and bordered on pain, which was not a healthy state. I know this all the more now, when they are different and I do not go into these extremes anymore. Emotions are (should be) comfortable, mine are, and yes I agree balance is very important. Still, I see the feeling of sadness for what it is. And if we are healthy still this feeling comes. And as I said it has a practicality to it. I remember DJ said sadness is something like floating around the universe and that we just kind of pick it up because of that (paraphrase, no idea how exactly this was expressed or in what book)
It is hard if something like this happens to a young person, because yes, they are not balanced very well yet (I wasn't and my emotions were strong and painful). My most straining effort went not into dreaming or seeing or any of these 'other worldly' stuff, but into normal life, balancing myself, my emotions, becoming healthier, into cleansing and making myself more whole.
Glad to hear you are not going "overboard" any more. The beginning of our path must be used to strengthen us for the journey ahead. It was with me. I could not understand how unstable I was before I began looking into occult matters. My teacher used to call it "getting our feet on the grund." Don Juan called it the warrior's way.
And yes, we can use emotions. I write songs. My wife says that they are melancholy. Sadness can be a beautiful thing and it resonates with others. A melody can be sad. A harmony can be sad and it has been known for years that minor chords are sad and major chords are happy. In the middle ages some "modes" or chords were actually banned by the Catholic Church as being demonic.
If everything was created by a word, then everything i vibration of some sort or other.
So what is "floating out there" can be tuned into. Just as if you strike a tuning fork in a room the strings of a guitar that are harmonic to that tuning fork will begin to vibrate also.
watergaze wrote:
What would you compare this abyss to in CC's teachings? Is it the loss of human forms? In shamanic terms it would be death I guess, how they die and come back again. When reading your posts I often read Daath as Death . This concept you write about is something totally new, I have no knowledge of it, so I am trying to understand it through what I know..
Bob wrote:
To actually experience something spiritual instead of just reading it or accepting it in theory would be touching on Daath. True experiential knowledge. It has nothing to do with death. It is Revelation. Something of another, higher realm than we ever imagined existed actually touching us. I never knew what it felt like to be a father until I watched my first son being born. Then it was a miracle.
This is an analogy of course, but an appropriate one.
The way you describe it it seems as something we all know/do/experience. Experiencing.. Gaining knowledge through experiencing. Somehow it seemed as something much more mystical when you were writing about it before . Now I am not sure anymore, will have to reread what you wrote.. Though, ok, you saying "true" knowledge makes it a bit more mystical .
There are four worlds and a tree in each world. So, if I see the same Principle happening in the physical or psychological realm as is happening in the Spiritual realms it is no suprise. As above, so below. Mysticism is not "spooky." It is just a study of the way things work. Both visible and invisible things. That is how allegory works. That is the study of the tree of life. The pattern of how things work, whether on the physical, astral/psychological, spiritual or divine. When we understand how things work here in the earth plane, we can surmise how they work in higher planes. And when we actually experience something there we are better equiped to recognise what is happening spiritually.
Bob wrote:
In Revelations Jesus refers to himself as Alpha and Omega. The beginning and end.
Solomon said no man can find out the work of God from beginning to end. He was right.
We must recieve the Spirit of God in order to reach across the abyss. To go from troubled to astonished.
Until then we are operating from the spirit and mind of man.
After that we are operating from the mind of Christ and the Spirit of God.
...
In the Qabalah, that abyss is called Daath, (Knowledge)
This is knowledge that is experiential in it's character. Becoming "one with" something as a man and wife become one body during intercourse.
But to cross that abyss is not possible for "Natural Man."
...
So what is impossible with man is possible with God.
This is the abyss that Solomon came to. But what was not yet available to him is available to us.
We are surrounded by the Kingdom of Heaven.
We must receive the spirit of God in order to reach across the abyss = we must receive the spirit of God in order to reach knowledge through experience..
Before we receive the spirit of God we are operating from the spirit and mind of man.
I guess I was asking about how this receiving of the spirit of God happens, that was the question about losing human form or dying. For me it seemed that is what opens to us the crossing over the abyss - the abyss I could imagine at least . What makes us very close with Spirit - which in my mind kind of resonates with your "receive the spirit of God"
But now from what you tell me it looks like I mixed apples with pears . Could you please just say this in some layman's terms? Are you saying that to have true experiential knowledge we need to receive the spirit of God? What is spirit of God in this sense? How do we receive it?
I am not sure I am very good with analogies . Thank you for the fresh breeze of inspiring ideas though..We recieve the spirit by believing that Jesus is the son of God. That He came from the Father, the Creator. It is as simple as that.
Many believe this and go on about their lives as usual.
But going across the abyss in this life is "optional."
The Spirit can manifest to us in many ways. We can recieve things from the Father through our own mind. Wisdom, understanding ,and other gifts like discernment of spirits, understanding other tongues, signs and wonders, visions and dreams, revelations, etc., Power can come down from above or we can be pulled up and experience other realms.
I have experienced these things.
To me it has always been a burning question in my mind that is difficult to put into words.
What is this all about? There has to be something more than living for 70 or 80 years and raising children and working just to have them do the same thing.
What would be the point in that?
I started out my spiritual studies with the books of Don Juan. I had some life altering experiences. As I got deeper into study I found a teacher who also began with occult studies. He, at an early age was looking for Power, not for selfish reasons but because he was a healer and wanted to help people. He asked a budhist monk what was the most powerful form of magic. He was told by the monk that it was the Qabala.
I was not interested in power. But in knowing what lies behind the scenes.
I have had some visions and was pulled up very high into a blinding light, I fell into a plane of darkness once that was completely void of light or hope, I have seen angels and Jesus and demons and worn the Coat of Many Colors.
But the flashes of inspiration (Wisdom, knowledge) and growing Understanding seem to be what I have experienced most. And it is these that are most important to me.
The experiences that I had while practicing the Don Juan were strange indeed. You may say that I experienced going across an abyss and experienced a different order of existence.
Some of the experiences I've had after coming to the Qabalah and the bible are of another order of being completely.
"It has not entered the hearts and minds what God has in store for His children."
The things of God are beyond our ability to imagine.