06-01-2011, 12:00 AM
Bob May wrote:Glad to hear you are not going "overboard" any more. The beginning of our path must be used to strengthen us for the journey ahead. It was with me. I could not understand how unstable I was before I began looking into occult matters. My teacher used to call it "getting our feet on the grund." Don Juan called it the warrior's way.
I agree that before going into the unknown one should build a stable base, especially females are prone to floating around . A lot of people just seek fascination and kicks to get through their otherwise boring lives, which is ok for starters (it is a good hook). However if one does not do the work of balancing out it won't lead very far. I am not the one to talk, I have a way to go, but I can see this.
Bob wrote:And yes, we can use emotions. I write songs. My wife says that they are melancholy. Sadness can be a beautiful thing and it resonates with others. A melody can be sad. A harmony can be sad and it has been known for years that minor chords are sad and major chords are happy.
If everything was created by a word, then everything i vibration of some sort or other.
The universe is singing. I found this always very magical.
Bob May wrote:In the middle ages some "modes" or chords were actually banned by the Catholic Church as being demonic.
Would be interesting to hear something of that kind, wonder what feeling it would give..
I know that music that is made with a different musical (tone) scale (I mean the number of tones in a scale, for example the pentatonic scale. we have a heptatonic scale) give me a somewhat different feeling sometimes, when listening to them.
Bob May wrote:There are four worlds and a tree in each world. So, if I see the same Principle happening in the physical or psychological realm as is happening in the Spiritual realms it is no suprise. As above, so below. Mysticism is not "spooky." It is just a study of the way things work. Both visible and invisible things. That is how allegory works. That is the study of the tree of life. The pattern of how things work, whether on the physical, astral/psychological, spiritual or divine. When we understand how things work here in the earth plane, we can surmise how they work in higher planes. And when we actually experience something there we are better equiped to recognise what is happening spiritually.
.....
He asked a budhist monk what was the most powerful form of magic. He was told by the monk that it was the Qabala.
This 4 world model is from the Qabala (?Kabbalah)? Maybe a look into it would be rewarding, I don't know since I never really appreciated religion, so Qabala never grabbed my interest. If I met Christians like you maybe I would have had a different outlook on these kinds of things. Generally I can say that I do not feel like stuffing my nose into books if I do not see they are having some effect on me. Study something really long to understand something that I can understand better and faster by doing and not studying .
Going through a labyrinth of information, a lot of it incorrect because of a bad interpretation or faulty background info.. erm I have had enough of that at university. A paper on the early sources for the Merlin myth can cure one of such tendencies . I can imagine how one goes from book to book, digging up stuff..
But of course, if the book is full of energy, then it is irrelevant what I think. The energy that flows in the pages, behind the words. If it has an impact on me then I would read it .
I agree that mysticism is not spooky though . Spooky as in scary (just saying this out loud so you see my connection of English words). Mysticism is not scary.
I do not know how Qabala is, but generally I do not like mystification and that is exactly what authors of sorcery magic books do. I really like a kind of no nonsense approach. And I kind of found something close to that in Castaneda and shamanism.
I think things are inherently simple. Making stuff difficult is some kind of a morbid edge that men have. Once we understand we see simplicity.
Bob May wrote:We recieve the spirit by believing that Jesus is the son of God. That He came from the Father, the Creator. It is as simple as that.
Is it not enough to believe there is a God and to love him? Must we believe Jesus is the son of God? I do not think I can come around to that . He came from the creator, sure, but so did we, so.. either we are all sons (daughters) of God or no body is. And if we are all, why ephasize Jesus so much?
I could go with the idea of God, because I can very easily see him as Spirit. However, to believe in Jesus is something altogheter different for me, but I am not educated in the Christian manner. Do you think Jesus was some kind of special being, and by special I mean not just an evolved human that all of us could become? Because only then and maybe not even then does someone deserve or even entice the option of being worshipped. But then you do not talk of worhship, you just said "believing that Jesus is the son of God". I could see Jesus as a great teacher, enlightened being, a master, something of that kind...
Anyway to extract this info you gave and use it on my kind of stuff/concept would be: Believe. And that is true. We need to believe, have faith, have hope, and thus also have certainty. But based on good things, not false ones. Not to have the ground give way under us.
I know CC does not lead us far enough, he provides some hooks and pushes us on the path, giving us a few leads. But his concept is missing something important and I cannot put my finger on it what it is. But he does give us the concepts... After that everyone has to figure it out themselves. So hard and so simple. He cannot tell us what out path with a heart is, how could he?
Bob May wrote:I was not interested in power. But in knowing what lies behind the scenes.
Because of this you were able to study stuff, because it tells of what is behind the scenes and it tells it from the start. What I am most interested in is not this. Sure I like to know, but there are more important things. For example doctors sometimes know what is happening, how things work (or think they do), but they cannot heal. Someone can heal and doesn't even know how it works. I love to know how stuff works, I am very curious and ask a lot of questions about things. But if I am to chose between knowing and doing, i chose the more practical of the two, which is doing. Practicality is something like my Achilles heel, if I do not see that something is working I lose interest . This is of course generally speaking. I can go with long term stuff , like conserving energy so that i can have a big container of it in xyz years. This is also considered practical by me .
Bob May wrote:To me it has always been a burning question in my mind that is difficult to put into words.
What is this all about? There has to be something more than living for 70 or 80 years and raising children and working just to have them do the same thing.
What would be the point in that?
I think everyone has these thoughts, just that most people don't have the guts to follow them. Or most people don't find a reason to..
Bob May wrote:The experiences that I had while practicing the Don Juan were strange indeed. You may say that I experienced going across an abyss and experienced a different order of existence.
Some of the experiences I've had after coming to the Qabalah and the bible are of another order of being completely.
Interesting. Of another order of being. Do you see it as DJ told us in CCs books, that it is important to find the between in things? Like between our normal world view and the sorceric world view? The christian / qabalistic (don't know how to call it) world view could then be one among all these world views that one can chose to use for this. Or do you see that the christian / qabalistic world view is leading one to the destination that is already like that (like DJ said)? Hope this question makes sense
Bob May wrote:I have had some visions and was pulled up very high into a blinding light, I fell into a plane of darkness once that was completely void of light or hope, I have seen angels and Jesus and demons and worn the Coat of Many Colors.
This made me remember something. Once I was at a seminar of core-shamanism. There the shaman did a spirit journey for a woman, she brought something for her, I think she said it is called a coat of many colors. She said it is something hm i don't know like a concept, like something functional for her, not specially for her, but like a state she has reached, something like that. I do not remember it well, was years ago, maybe 3-4 and I did not note it down. I just suddenly remembered it now. And I'm thinking it is interesting that if this is something from a Christian background that the shaman did this, brought it for that person. Hope I am not remembering it wrongly.. But I remember thinking it is a beautiful name .
Could you say a little bit about this coat of many colors? What kind of state is it? And when you say you have worn it you mean it is also something that passes? . Hm I also remember something about the shaman saying to the woman something about "saint", being a saint, being closer to saints, something of that kind. Maybe it was a cloak of saints and I just somehow confused it with your many colors cloak. Wish my memory was clearer .
Bob, thank you for saying all this
Do you think people on other paths can share these experiences? Or is it the homogeneous (homogenetic, organic) thing that comes your way, like you said other experiences while on CCs path as those on your other path? But something has stuck on you from CC, at least in the form of you sharing with us here on a CC/shaman forum .
I agree that before going into the unknown one should build a stable base, especially females are prone to floating around . A lot of people just seek fascination and kicks to get through their otherwise boring lives, which is ok for starters (it is a good hook). However if one does not do the work of balancing out it won't lead very far. I am not the one to talk, I have a way to go, but I can see this.
Bob wrote:And yes, we can use emotions. I write songs. My wife says that they are melancholy. Sadness can be a beautiful thing and it resonates with others. A melody can be sad. A harmony can be sad and it has been known for years that minor chords are sad and major chords are happy.
If everything was created by a word, then everything i vibration of some sort or other.
The universe is singing. I found this always very magical.
Bob May wrote:In the middle ages some "modes" or chords were actually banned by the Catholic Church as being demonic.
Would be interesting to hear something of that kind, wonder what feeling it would give..
I know that music that is made with a different musical (tone) scale (I mean the number of tones in a scale, for example the pentatonic scale. we have a heptatonic scale) give me a somewhat different feeling sometimes, when listening to them.
Bob May wrote:There are four worlds and a tree in each world. So, if I see the same Principle happening in the physical or psychological realm as is happening in the Spiritual realms it is no suprise. As above, so below. Mysticism is not "spooky." It is just a study of the way things work. Both visible and invisible things. That is how allegory works. That is the study of the tree of life. The pattern of how things work, whether on the physical, astral/psychological, spiritual or divine. When we understand how things work here in the earth plane, we can surmise how they work in higher planes. And when we actually experience something there we are better equiped to recognise what is happening spiritually.
.....
He asked a budhist monk what was the most powerful form of magic. He was told by the monk that it was the Qabala.
This 4 world model is from the Qabala (?Kabbalah)? Maybe a look into it would be rewarding, I don't know since I never really appreciated religion, so Qabala never grabbed my interest. If I met Christians like you maybe I would have had a different outlook on these kinds of things. Generally I can say that I do not feel like stuffing my nose into books if I do not see they are having some effect on me. Study something really long to understand something that I can understand better and faster by doing and not studying .
Going through a labyrinth of information, a lot of it incorrect because of a bad interpretation or faulty background info.. erm I have had enough of that at university. A paper on the early sources for the Merlin myth can cure one of such tendencies . I can imagine how one goes from book to book, digging up stuff..
But of course, if the book is full of energy, then it is irrelevant what I think. The energy that flows in the pages, behind the words. If it has an impact on me then I would read it .
I agree that mysticism is not spooky though . Spooky as in scary (just saying this out loud so you see my connection of English words). Mysticism is not scary.
I do not know how Qabala is, but generally I do not like mystification and that is exactly what authors of sorcery magic books do. I really like a kind of no nonsense approach. And I kind of found something close to that in Castaneda and shamanism.
I think things are inherently simple. Making stuff difficult is some kind of a morbid edge that men have. Once we understand we see simplicity.
Bob May wrote:We recieve the spirit by believing that Jesus is the son of God. That He came from the Father, the Creator. It is as simple as that.
Is it not enough to believe there is a God and to love him? Must we believe Jesus is the son of God? I do not think I can come around to that . He came from the creator, sure, but so did we, so.. either we are all sons (daughters) of God or no body is. And if we are all, why ephasize Jesus so much?
I could go with the idea of God, because I can very easily see him as Spirit. However, to believe in Jesus is something altogheter different for me, but I am not educated in the Christian manner. Do you think Jesus was some kind of special being, and by special I mean not just an evolved human that all of us could become? Because only then and maybe not even then does someone deserve or even entice the option of being worshipped. But then you do not talk of worhship, you just said "believing that Jesus is the son of God". I could see Jesus as a great teacher, enlightened being, a master, something of that kind...
Anyway to extract this info you gave and use it on my kind of stuff/concept would be: Believe. And that is true. We need to believe, have faith, have hope, and thus also have certainty. But based on good things, not false ones. Not to have the ground give way under us.
I know CC does not lead us far enough, he provides some hooks and pushes us on the path, giving us a few leads. But his concept is missing something important and I cannot put my finger on it what it is. But he does give us the concepts... After that everyone has to figure it out themselves. So hard and so simple. He cannot tell us what out path with a heart is, how could he?
Bob May wrote:I was not interested in power. But in knowing what lies behind the scenes.
Because of this you were able to study stuff, because it tells of what is behind the scenes and it tells it from the start. What I am most interested in is not this. Sure I like to know, but there are more important things. For example doctors sometimes know what is happening, how things work (or think they do), but they cannot heal. Someone can heal and doesn't even know how it works. I love to know how stuff works, I am very curious and ask a lot of questions about things. But if I am to chose between knowing and doing, i chose the more practical of the two, which is doing. Practicality is something like my Achilles heel, if I do not see that something is working I lose interest . This is of course generally speaking. I can go with long term stuff , like conserving energy so that i can have a big container of it in xyz years. This is also considered practical by me .
Bob May wrote:To me it has always been a burning question in my mind that is difficult to put into words.
What is this all about? There has to be something more than living for 70 or 80 years and raising children and working just to have them do the same thing.
What would be the point in that?
I think everyone has these thoughts, just that most people don't have the guts to follow them. Or most people don't find a reason to..
Bob May wrote:The experiences that I had while practicing the Don Juan were strange indeed. You may say that I experienced going across an abyss and experienced a different order of existence.
Some of the experiences I've had after coming to the Qabalah and the bible are of another order of being completely.
Interesting. Of another order of being. Do you see it as DJ told us in CCs books, that it is important to find the between in things? Like between our normal world view and the sorceric world view? The christian / qabalistic (don't know how to call it) world view could then be one among all these world views that one can chose to use for this. Or do you see that the christian / qabalistic world view is leading one to the destination that is already like that (like DJ said)? Hope this question makes sense
Bob May wrote:I have had some visions and was pulled up very high into a blinding light, I fell into a plane of darkness once that was completely void of light or hope, I have seen angels and Jesus and demons and worn the Coat of Many Colors.
This made me remember something. Once I was at a seminar of core-shamanism. There the shaman did a spirit journey for a woman, she brought something for her, I think she said it is called a coat of many colors. She said it is something hm i don't know like a concept, like something functional for her, not specially for her, but like a state she has reached, something like that. I do not remember it well, was years ago, maybe 3-4 and I did not note it down. I just suddenly remembered it now. And I'm thinking it is interesting that if this is something from a Christian background that the shaman did this, brought it for that person. Hope I am not remembering it wrongly.. But I remember thinking it is a beautiful name .
Could you say a little bit about this coat of many colors? What kind of state is it? And when you say you have worn it you mean it is also something that passes? . Hm I also remember something about the shaman saying to the woman something about "saint", being a saint, being closer to saints, something of that kind. Maybe it was a cloak of saints and I just somehow confused it with your many colors cloak. Wish my memory was clearer .
Bob, thank you for saying all this
Do you think people on other paths can share these experiences? Or is it the homogeneous (homogenetic, organic) thing that comes your way, like you said other experiences while on CCs path as those on your other path? But something has stuck on you from CC, at least in the form of you sharing with us here on a CC/shaman forum .