06-01-2011, 12:00 AM
Erm, not sure what happened, but it is obvious that it was me who posted the last post, since it says watergaze .. . (Do not know how I got a .warrior suffix, I have not posted anything on the site called warrior at yuku)
I am reposting my post, and will try to get rid of that alias (if I am successful I do not know if that post will or will not be deleted, so hence I am reposting it).. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Bob May wrote:Someone mentioned the coyote as trickster being the sorcerer's world or Astral planes. This sounds right to me. Jacob is a trickster. He is us.
We have a spiritual experience and turn it into an expanded part of our Tonal. We think we did it by our own effort.
But it is our desire to experience and know the unknown that brings us to these things.
Why are we different? Because we are Jacob. "Seeking after God." Seeking after the unknown.
But where did we get this yearning??? We, most of us were born with it, I think though maybe some got it later in life.
This is what I was talking about.. the yearning, our desire brings us to these things.
Bob May wrote
on Juan said that Power dictated who would be an apprentice.
Jesus said, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you."
This awareness that it is all a gift, Grace, Favor, I believe helps us to keep the tonal from growing and taking over the spiritual side of things. Our world view expands but we know there is more to come.
Every time I've had what I consider a true Spiritual experience, (not just an astral level thing) it has been very different from anything I had experienced previously.
We are growing into the nagual as Don Juan might put it but growing in Christ in Christian terms. Fellow heirs, having recieved the birthright.
Going into a land we knew not.
"Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not."
"It has not entered into the hearts and minds of man what God has in store for his children."
It is beyond our ability to imagine.
And thus yes it is a gift, but let us say that we welcome it, with our longing and intent and hoping and wishing and yearning all that..
I wonder what is the difference between a spiritual experience and an "astral level thing", if it is possible to explain I do not know, but I do not understand this difference, language wise at least. But I can grasp it when you link the spiritual to being different from what you had previously experienced. The question that comes to me now is (if you do not mind me asking questions) does it always change you? Could change be a helpful term here? Or does it come even after astral experiences? (i do not really know what is meant by astral, the terminology is not very clear to me). I could imagine experiences that expand our world view that are different from all we experienced up till then and where it is truly surprising even if we have heard or read something about it, then it changes us. But sometimes just kind of slightly in the real world of acting, but our mind/self is as if reborn in some way. That would go with my understanding of Spiritual, but interesting is I never called it spiritual. And astral, well i guess i do not know what is meant by that. Is it just the other plains? Where we go travel? Or are there more of those and only some are astral? I have to admit sometimes i drive myself crazy when i start thinking and asking myself stuff. So, i understand if you do not want to explain astral 1.0 to me . The thing is one can have an experience even if one does not know what it is called or how it is classified, but it is so much better to know it, or have some sort of system (even if personal)...[/quote]
I am reposting my post, and will try to get rid of that alias (if I am successful I do not know if that post will or will not be deleted, so hence I am reposting it).. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Bob May wrote:Someone mentioned the coyote as trickster being the sorcerer's world or Astral planes. This sounds right to me. Jacob is a trickster. He is us.
We have a spiritual experience and turn it into an expanded part of our Tonal. We think we did it by our own effort.
But it is our desire to experience and know the unknown that brings us to these things.
Why are we different? Because we are Jacob. "Seeking after God." Seeking after the unknown.
But where did we get this yearning??? We, most of us were born with it, I think though maybe some got it later in life.
This is what I was talking about.. the yearning, our desire brings us to these things.
Bob May wrote
on Juan said that Power dictated who would be an apprentice.Jesus said, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you."
This awareness that it is all a gift, Grace, Favor, I believe helps us to keep the tonal from growing and taking over the spiritual side of things. Our world view expands but we know there is more to come.
Every time I've had what I consider a true Spiritual experience, (not just an astral level thing) it has been very different from anything I had experienced previously.
We are growing into the nagual as Don Juan might put it but growing in Christ in Christian terms. Fellow heirs, having recieved the birthright.
Going into a land we knew not.
"Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not."
"It has not entered into the hearts and minds of man what God has in store for his children."
It is beyond our ability to imagine.
And thus yes it is a gift, but let us say that we welcome it, with our longing and intent and hoping and wishing and yearning all that..
I wonder what is the difference between a spiritual experience and an "astral level thing", if it is possible to explain I do not know, but I do not understand this difference, language wise at least. But I can grasp it when you link the spiritual to being different from what you had previously experienced. The question that comes to me now is (if you do not mind me asking questions) does it always change you? Could change be a helpful term here? Or does it come even after astral experiences? (i do not really know what is meant by astral, the terminology is not very clear to me). I could imagine experiences that expand our world view that are different from all we experienced up till then and where it is truly surprising even if we have heard or read something about it, then it changes us. But sometimes just kind of slightly in the real world of acting, but our mind/self is as if reborn in some way. That would go with my understanding of Spiritual, but interesting is I never called it spiritual. And astral, well i guess i do not know what is meant by that. Is it just the other plains? Where we go travel? Or are there more of those and only some are astral? I have to admit sometimes i drive myself crazy when i start thinking and asking myself stuff. So, i understand if you do not want to explain astral 1.0 to me . The thing is one can have an experience even if one does not know what it is called or how it is classified, but it is so much better to know it, or have some sort of system (even if personal)...[/quote]