06-04-2011, 12:00 AM
Hi Bob!
Yeah logic, I see it as something done, such as at your work, and everywhere all the time. So its not like it serves no function. I think what applies is we see its limitations, then when we use it we knwo why we are using it. For example, if you watch those shows on discovery channel, they got everything figured out. A friend I watch them with gets all excited over the shows waiting for a big break through. I'm watching and see that as long as they follow the perimeters of logic, they will always arrive at a predictable result which requires proof.
I love unusual stuff, Monty Python made people laugh because they did the unexpected and it causes a release and in that release our rebel comes out and says subliminally "I knew it!" and joy is evident. The I knew it is..."I knew there was more to life". See its like most people have these scripts in their head, and they know what to expect all the time, and fellow man usually follows through and delivers that predictable action. Logic is the framework.
Lets say someone gives you a fender bender at a stop light. The guy who did it (yeah we'll make it a guy, lol) gets out of his car, and he expects some basic possible reactions...you will be fuming mad, you will be calm but ready to get his insurance info, you will be hysterical your car was dinged and start crying... something along these lines of reaction. You of course are free to react any way you want. You could tell him the car is not yours, it belongs to the local mofia and let the guy knew to sleep with one eye open from now on. The point is not to toy with him, but rather that logically we only consider a set of options and discard the rest as possibilities. This makes us set in our ways and develop a personality recognizable and predictable, this can take the zest out of life and make one stay rooted due to it logically makes sense even if it makes one unhappy.
So logic in its functional sense is like math...yes, but what many don't see is logic has infiltrated social behavior. It actually does not belong there. Interaction should be spontaneous. We should be reading people each and every time we approach them, get a barometer reading on them every time as if the person is brand new to us. Instead we have scripts to everyone, and unfortunately people often live up to those scripts, reinforcing it a correct approach. But if one encounters a sorcerer, they may be in for a change.
DJ made Carlos very uncomfortable when he didn't behave it the strong, capable way Carlos expected...remember the feeble old man story? See, Carlos thought he knew DJ and had defined him in a very poetic sense..and older sorcerer but nimble as a child, full of energy, exuberant, impeccable...he really went on and on about DJ in the early books. So DJ became Carlos's worst nightmare...an old decrepit, feeble, stupefied ordinary human. Carlos was lost without his logical expectations of his hero Don Juan. The result was the stress pushed him beyond all concern. But we must remember that horrible period before he reached that place. His whole world crumbled to the ground. The world had been supported by logical premises.
Logic is for machines, and for basic order. Too much emphasis must have been given to it by our predecessors and thus we inherited their legacy of logic-worship, but sorcerers easily get beyond this.
A mystic or a man of knowledge is searching for the "Causless Cause" or "First Cause" as it is sometimes called.
Even if one has no chance of ever finding it, I think was how Don Juan worded it.
I see this as meaning we are always seekers, of which I agree.
A lot of what you are saying here has to do with whether or not to use magic or powers. And what to use them for. These are big questions. Intent has a lot to do with it of course and that is personal. Don Juan used it to instruct Carlos and Jesus used miracles to help people and instruct as did the Apostles after him. So did my teacher.I see sorcery as an aid, yes, and a very positive advantage. Such as, through sorcery we can know when someone seeks to harm us. Again, I remember Carlos asking DJ something like "what would you do if someone was waiting for you outside with a gun?" And he replied "I would not go outside" lol, something like that. But one has to know. Kennedy did not know in Dallas someone was waiting for him with a gun. If he had been a sorcerer, maybe he would have known, but then...why even be president then?
Sorcery as a tool, liberates us from those things which bind us...beliefs, expectations, lack of clarity, lack of ability to transform, lack of access to power (God force). We use sorcery to draw power to us, thats how I see it.
One last thing on breaking the mold of logic...
There was this Monty Python sketch I saw recently...as I'm watching them alot these days. And in it it starts out with this prim and proper group all dressed in white suits and summer dresses and frilly hats. British elite, and they are outdoors having tea and then one says, "tennis anyone?" and he waves a tennis racket in the air. And then another guy says "here, catch" and tosses him a tennis ball. But the ball hits his eye and blood starts gushing out. Then a guy gets up to help him and the other guy grabs his arm and it falls off and blood comes gushing out there. Then a guy at the piano is playing a happy tune and the piano top falls on his hands and severs them at the wrist and blood is squirting out all over the place...all the people are becoming dismembered in one way or another. At first I was just watching this like "what???? thats funny?" Then I start laughing, at the absurdity, at the fact it did not deliver anything along any lines of expectations and thats a relief. It shocked me (not drastically so but not what I considered humor), but in being shocked I stopped caring and just appreciated the unusualness in their perception to even come up with that scene.
Its not that sorcerers do not apply logical frameworks too, rather its that they learn to never simply 'borrow' whats given from common man. They use their own seeing to steer by. They are independent of the mass beliefs and highly aware of them and their limitations. They are constant observers. Take nothing for granted, expect nothing prescribed and instead allow inner knowing to guide their every step. Logic simply gives some order.Which is fine and works as long as one can adapt to the ever new. Its true logical perception (in some form) holds worlds in tact, but it should never be seen as the source of the world itself.
Yeah logic, I see it as something done, such as at your work, and everywhere all the time. So its not like it serves no function. I think what applies is we see its limitations, then when we use it we knwo why we are using it. For example, if you watch those shows on discovery channel, they got everything figured out. A friend I watch them with gets all excited over the shows waiting for a big break through. I'm watching and see that as long as they follow the perimeters of logic, they will always arrive at a predictable result which requires proof.
I love unusual stuff, Monty Python made people laugh because they did the unexpected and it causes a release and in that release our rebel comes out and says subliminally "I knew it!" and joy is evident. The I knew it is..."I knew there was more to life". See its like most people have these scripts in their head, and they know what to expect all the time, and fellow man usually follows through and delivers that predictable action. Logic is the framework.
Lets say someone gives you a fender bender at a stop light. The guy who did it (yeah we'll make it a guy, lol) gets out of his car, and he expects some basic possible reactions...you will be fuming mad, you will be calm but ready to get his insurance info, you will be hysterical your car was dinged and start crying... something along these lines of reaction. You of course are free to react any way you want. You could tell him the car is not yours, it belongs to the local mofia and let the guy knew to sleep with one eye open from now on. The point is not to toy with him, but rather that logically we only consider a set of options and discard the rest as possibilities. This makes us set in our ways and develop a personality recognizable and predictable, this can take the zest out of life and make one stay rooted due to it logically makes sense even if it makes one unhappy.
So logic in its functional sense is like math...yes, but what many don't see is logic has infiltrated social behavior. It actually does not belong there. Interaction should be spontaneous. We should be reading people each and every time we approach them, get a barometer reading on them every time as if the person is brand new to us. Instead we have scripts to everyone, and unfortunately people often live up to those scripts, reinforcing it a correct approach. But if one encounters a sorcerer, they may be in for a change.
DJ made Carlos very uncomfortable when he didn't behave it the strong, capable way Carlos expected...remember the feeble old man story? See, Carlos thought he knew DJ and had defined him in a very poetic sense..and older sorcerer but nimble as a child, full of energy, exuberant, impeccable...he really went on and on about DJ in the early books. So DJ became Carlos's worst nightmare...an old decrepit, feeble, stupefied ordinary human. Carlos was lost without his logical expectations of his hero Don Juan. The result was the stress pushed him beyond all concern. But we must remember that horrible period before he reached that place. His whole world crumbled to the ground. The world had been supported by logical premises.
Logic is for machines, and for basic order. Too much emphasis must have been given to it by our predecessors and thus we inherited their legacy of logic-worship, but sorcerers easily get beyond this.
A mystic or a man of knowledge is searching for the "Causless Cause" or "First Cause" as it is sometimes called.
Even if one has no chance of ever finding it, I think was how Don Juan worded it.
I see this as meaning we are always seekers, of which I agree.
A lot of what you are saying here has to do with whether or not to use magic or powers. And what to use them for. These are big questions. Intent has a lot to do with it of course and that is personal. Don Juan used it to instruct Carlos and Jesus used miracles to help people and instruct as did the Apostles after him. So did my teacher.I see sorcery as an aid, yes, and a very positive advantage. Such as, through sorcery we can know when someone seeks to harm us. Again, I remember Carlos asking DJ something like "what would you do if someone was waiting for you outside with a gun?" And he replied "I would not go outside" lol, something like that. But one has to know. Kennedy did not know in Dallas someone was waiting for him with a gun. If he had been a sorcerer, maybe he would have known, but then...why even be president then?
Sorcery as a tool, liberates us from those things which bind us...beliefs, expectations, lack of clarity, lack of ability to transform, lack of access to power (God force). We use sorcery to draw power to us, thats how I see it.
One last thing on breaking the mold of logic...
There was this Monty Python sketch I saw recently...as I'm watching them alot these days. And in it it starts out with this prim and proper group all dressed in white suits and summer dresses and frilly hats. British elite, and they are outdoors having tea and then one says, "tennis anyone?" and he waves a tennis racket in the air. And then another guy says "here, catch" and tosses him a tennis ball. But the ball hits his eye and blood starts gushing out. Then a guy gets up to help him and the other guy grabs his arm and it falls off and blood comes gushing out there. Then a guy at the piano is playing a happy tune and the piano top falls on his hands and severs them at the wrist and blood is squirting out all over the place...all the people are becoming dismembered in one way or another. At first I was just watching this like "what???? thats funny?" Then I start laughing, at the absurdity, at the fact it did not deliver anything along any lines of expectations and thats a relief. It shocked me (not drastically so but not what I considered humor), but in being shocked I stopped caring and just appreciated the unusualness in their perception to even come up with that scene.
Its not that sorcerers do not apply logical frameworks too, rather its that they learn to never simply 'borrow' whats given from common man. They use their own seeing to steer by. They are independent of the mass beliefs and highly aware of them and their limitations. They are constant observers. Take nothing for granted, expect nothing prescribed and instead allow inner knowing to guide their every step. Logic simply gives some order.Which is fine and works as long as one can adapt to the ever new. Its true logical perception (in some form) holds worlds in tact, but it should never be seen as the source of the world itself.