06-09-2011, 12:01 AM
Nu Lang wrote:
Maybe it is helpful to introduce the notion of personal and impersonal here, as Nu Lang did. That the personal shifts to hold the AP, but the more impersonal keeps the overall stuff, intent, and helps pull us back. Nice Watergaze. Its what I was seeing too. So being a sorcerer is, in large part, about balancing these aspects personal/impersonal (harmony) in order to navigate smoothly in this ever challenging exisitence.
And I just want to elaborate on what I meant. The reason I see the personal holds the ap is due to self-purpose (path with heart) and the desire for individual existence which is to experience the wonders being alive. To do this we need to 'be' ...an individual. What warriors learn is to be a fluid individual, so they journey farther into the abstract/spiritual planes.
So ap positions are sought/held and even released by personal will/heart desire. The impersonal has the broader view (eternal, knows past/present/future as one) and thus guides us and lends us its perceptual consciousness (we see the future before it comes about, we read minds, we understand lessons of the past) all from this broader impersonal perspective that hold us and responds to our will especially as we align with it. Its the mystery (how does a seed grow?) that we can count on even if we don't understand its operations entirely, it seems it understand entirety, in the most astounding unimaginable and encompassing way. To lose the self and become entirely it would end the journey, as I see it. Its better to lose human form and continue the journey of self this way.So now I have an answer to where more exactly this pull comes from.
This led me to another interesting thought. If even as we are now (most of us) ignorant to our true potential and no self being, if it is not about realizing this space of nothingness in between. This space that we slowly start to make use of, but maybe the biggest feat is to really go there, or be there.
Is that the void? Hm possibly not, I thought this pull is what gets one out of there back into the me, so it would not make sense . Maybe from that space we are closer to the void, maybe from there we can peek into the unknown.
I am most possibly mixing things here that should not be mixed.. but I got a bit exited for a second as these thoughts emerged in me while I was writing my reply. Still I know the mind is not enough to figure stuff out, so I am just leaving this here hanging a bit (because I am not sure I can digest all this now to make sense of it).
The reason I look more at the personal is because the collective is made up of many personals. And becasue I cannot change the collective.
We are empty vessels waiting to be filled either with the Spirit or A spirit. That is our nature as human beings. Jesus said he was the Way, the Truth. and the Door. To the Father, Creator. He not only had a different AP than the Collective unconscious and Conscious, his AP had a direct link to That which IS. That which started all of this we see and become aware of and opperating from normal men in normal men's consciousness or soercerer's, adept's Magi or anything else we could name by any other cultural handle.
Ge 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Ge 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Ge 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
I Qabalistic terms, earth and heaven here are of a very fine nature. Not yet what we call matter. More like potential spirit and matter. The bible begins by describing the second World or "World of Creation",... "at the beginning" because it is the beginning of time and space. Before Beyond that, only God, pure exisistence, cannot be either described os understood if described. I find it better sometimes to think of levels as opposed to Time.
In Tales of Power Don Juan points out that all of the methods and techniques that he taught Carlos were only accelerants to the one all important technique of stopping the internal dialog.
This technique of stopping the internal dialog can be experienced on many levels. There are many levels of existence and experience between the Creation quoted above and being banished from the Garden to this physical plane and given coats of skins in Genesis 3.
But to hold the idea of Silence is to keep the goal of that level from which the Father first spoke the words "let there be."
Jesus was not showing off when he walked on water. He was illustrating the place from which he had come. Where the Spirit hovered over or moved across the face of the water. Where the first word came out of the Eternal Silence. The only messenger that came straight from that level of existence to show us the way back to that existence.
We now talk about moving the AP because we are encased in coats of skins (plural) but we can bypass all of that through silence. Many schools of meditation both of the Eastern and Western types attest to the illusory nature of both the physical plane and the so called Astral planes and the need to recognise that they are illusion. Don Juan agreed in that he said he did not want Carlos to get hung up in the Second attention but merely give him a taste and then move on.
The collective consciousness is changing because many of the hippie generation experienced some things and have shared those experiences and their research into those subjects through books and movies etc.,. I was amazed the last time I went to a large bookstore, at how much has been published in recent years.
Back in the 70's I had to travel many miles to find a bookstore that dealt with anything occult. The Theosphical bookstore in Wheaton IL, a bookstore in Chicago Heights dealing mostly in Witchcraft and an Occult bookstore on north Clark street in Chicago.
That was it! There was no internet or libraries dealing with this stuff.
Maybe it is helpful to introduce the notion of personal and impersonal here, as Nu Lang did. That the personal shifts to hold the AP, but the more impersonal keeps the overall stuff, intent, and helps pull us back. Nice Watergaze. Its what I was seeing too. So being a sorcerer is, in large part, about balancing these aspects personal/impersonal (harmony) in order to navigate smoothly in this ever challenging exisitence.
And I just want to elaborate on what I meant. The reason I see the personal holds the ap is due to self-purpose (path with heart) and the desire for individual existence which is to experience the wonders being alive. To do this we need to 'be' ...an individual. What warriors learn is to be a fluid individual, so they journey farther into the abstract/spiritual planes.
So ap positions are sought/held and even released by personal will/heart desire. The impersonal has the broader view (eternal, knows past/present/future as one) and thus guides us and lends us its perceptual consciousness (we see the future before it comes about, we read minds, we understand lessons of the past) all from this broader impersonal perspective that hold us and responds to our will especially as we align with it. Its the mystery (how does a seed grow?) that we can count on even if we don't understand its operations entirely, it seems it understand entirety, in the most astounding unimaginable and encompassing way. To lose the self and become entirely it would end the journey, as I see it. Its better to lose human form and continue the journey of self this way.So now I have an answer to where more exactly this pull comes from.
This led me to another interesting thought. If even as we are now (most of us) ignorant to our true potential and no self being, if it is not about realizing this space of nothingness in between. This space that we slowly start to make use of, but maybe the biggest feat is to really go there, or be there.
Is that the void? Hm possibly not, I thought this pull is what gets one out of there back into the me, so it would not make sense . Maybe from that space we are closer to the void, maybe from there we can peek into the unknown.
I am most possibly mixing things here that should not be mixed.. but I got a bit exited for a second as these thoughts emerged in me while I was writing my reply. Still I know the mind is not enough to figure stuff out, so I am just leaving this here hanging a bit (because I am not sure I can digest all this now to make sense of it).
The reason I look more at the personal is because the collective is made up of many personals. And becasue I cannot change the collective.
We are empty vessels waiting to be filled either with the Spirit or A spirit. That is our nature as human beings. Jesus said he was the Way, the Truth. and the Door. To the Father, Creator. He not only had a different AP than the Collective unconscious and Conscious, his AP had a direct link to That which IS. That which started all of this we see and become aware of and opperating from normal men in normal men's consciousness or soercerer's, adept's Magi or anything else we could name by any other cultural handle.
Ge 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Ge 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Ge 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
I Qabalistic terms, earth and heaven here are of a very fine nature. Not yet what we call matter. More like potential spirit and matter. The bible begins by describing the second World or "World of Creation",... "at the beginning" because it is the beginning of time and space. Before Beyond that, only God, pure exisistence, cannot be either described os understood if described. I find it better sometimes to think of levels as opposed to Time.
In Tales of Power Don Juan points out that all of the methods and techniques that he taught Carlos were only accelerants to the one all important technique of stopping the internal dialog.
This technique of stopping the internal dialog can be experienced on many levels. There are many levels of existence and experience between the Creation quoted above and being banished from the Garden to this physical plane and given coats of skins in Genesis 3.
But to hold the idea of Silence is to keep the goal of that level from which the Father first spoke the words "let there be."
Jesus was not showing off when he walked on water. He was illustrating the place from which he had come. Where the Spirit hovered over or moved across the face of the water. Where the first word came out of the Eternal Silence. The only messenger that came straight from that level of existence to show us the way back to that existence.
We now talk about moving the AP because we are encased in coats of skins (plural) but we can bypass all of that through silence. Many schools of meditation both of the Eastern and Western types attest to the illusory nature of both the physical plane and the so called Astral planes and the need to recognise that they are illusion. Don Juan agreed in that he said he did not want Carlos to get hung up in the Second attention but merely give him a taste and then move on.
The collective consciousness is changing because many of the hippie generation experienced some things and have shared those experiences and their research into those subjects through books and movies etc.,. I was amazed the last time I went to a large bookstore, at how much has been published in recent years.
Back in the 70's I had to travel many miles to find a bookstore that dealt with anything occult. The Theosphical bookstore in Wheaton IL, a bookstore in Chicago Heights dealing mostly in Witchcraft and an Occult bookstore on north Clark street in Chicago.
That was it! There was no internet or libraries dealing with this stuff.