08-06-2017, 12:00 AM
Pixie wrote:You come from the school of thought that decisions are best left to Spirit. Not a person. That's a troublesome position because people are capable of accessing Spirit. Spirit speaks through nature, synchronicity, and the challenges that repeat until we learn the lesson they offer for our Spirit.
Here it makes no sense to me that you say it is troublesome that we are capable of accessing Spirit. It makes sense to me to say that it would be troublesome if Spirit was INaccessible to us. I first thought you meant to write INcapable, but reading you further that does not make sense either
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I don't think I get the point you are making in that paragraph. It does not make sense to me.
I am saying that a shaman when doing decisions concerning how to help a person needs to have a link with Spirit and listen to it. It takes a good shaman to be such. People who work on their progress and de-bsing themselves are generally not at such an advanced stage - if they were they would not ignore omens nor need many repetitions. They might have a link here and there but are also very often in a foggy and/or in a disconnected state. Having a link to Spirit is not related or does not mean one is a pawn in one's own life. If we ignore the omens then there are other things that may happen or not happen. All in all, most people have the freedom to live the life they choose. Spirit is not a jailer. It allows people to stay in their chosen jails. It aids them to get out if they so want. And a few it kicks out. How it chooses which are which? I have no clue. But I am surely not going to start kicking everyone
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Pixie wrote:If we have the power to benefit others should we sit back and let Spirit decide their fate?
If we have power to benefit others and a link to spirit then I am sure this power will be utilized well.
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Pixie wrote: Like if we see a biker get into a car accident, do we walk away from that entanglement and let Spirit sort the corpses? Or do we run over and apply pressure to bloody surfaces and speak to the person until Emergency Medical Services arrive? You seem like the type with a big heart who would intervene between others and Spirit.
I have not been in a situation where spirit indicated to me that I should let someone die. Have you?
You seem to put Spirit in a very passive role. I don't know why you do that. I am not agreeing with you
. In my experience, the best way to get things done that concern life and awareness is to listen to Spirit and not one's self-importance.
The type of help that is most needed sometimes escapes us (our awareness/mind) and this is why say if we don't listen and just act on what we think is best or on our fear etc and say run to try to prolong the life of someone that had an accident we might actually make stuff worse for the poor person. Maybe what we need to do as a shamanic practitioner is talk to the spirit of the person and help him or her prepare for the transition (it can make a very big difference if the person dies prepared or unprepared). Not beat at his or her chest and blow into his or her mouth etc. I am sure you understand it on this example. Hence I hope you can understand what I meant before.
All in all, it is not like you need to stop and ask for guidance to make every step. But the big decisions of affecting another person in a major way are something I would prefer to have backed up by Spirit. Sadly many people don't care what happens to people they mess/interact with (they care more about them having done what they think is right or needed by societal rules than what might actually be more helpful than that).
I do not ask the Spirit if I should go to the bathroom. There are decisions and Decisions.
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Pixie wrote:You come from the school of thought that decisions are best left to Spirit.
It is not just about decisions it is about the shaman needing to make a shift, a move to a different AP etc. The shaman when in healing move utilizes the power of the Spirit. Same in other modes. One has a lot more good and precise impact when one moves with Spirit. It would be idiotic to leave Spirit out of the equation.
Like I said we are not talking here about going to the loo. One can ask the Spirit little things ofc too... like what present to give someone and such. But the big things... if a shaman leaves the Spirit out of that they do not aid themselves or the person they are trying to aid.
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Pixie wrote: You seem like the type with a big heart who would intervene between others and Spirit.
You imply that the aim of the person and the aim of Spirit differs. Do you think Spirit wants someone dead that could be saved? This is a bit too theoretical for me but you seem to be implying this. I would say that whatever the case a person needs to do stuff to the best of their ability and in sync with their spirit/soul - their own and the other persons' (I presonally would prefer that a person lives and would do what I can for that but if I push and force this onto the situation and onto a person that it does not help anymore I may not only be unhelpful but I may make things worse by maybe giving more pain to the person as a consequence or by not doing other things that would have been a lot more helpful). Since I do not have this experience I cannot imagine that I'd have to fight the Spirit.
Basically, if you have to fight the Spirit then all of shamanism collapses (or does it? hmm hehe). Spirit is not the same as the rolling force etc. The rolling force does not tell you to take care of the person's soul in transitioning. But then what do I know about rolling force? This is what I think heh.
Here it makes no sense to me that you say it is troublesome that we are capable of accessing Spirit. It makes sense to me to say that it would be troublesome if Spirit was INaccessible to us. I first thought you meant to write INcapable, but reading you further that does not make sense either
.I don't think I get the point you are making in that paragraph. It does not make sense to me.
I am saying that a shaman when doing decisions concerning how to help a person needs to have a link with Spirit and listen to it. It takes a good shaman to be such. People who work on their progress and de-bsing themselves are generally not at such an advanced stage - if they were they would not ignore omens nor need many repetitions. They might have a link here and there but are also very often in a foggy and/or in a disconnected state. Having a link to Spirit is not related or does not mean one is a pawn in one's own life. If we ignore the omens then there are other things that may happen or not happen. All in all, most people have the freedom to live the life they choose. Spirit is not a jailer. It allows people to stay in their chosen jails. It aids them to get out if they so want. And a few it kicks out. How it chooses which are which? I have no clue. But I am surely not going to start kicking everyone
..
Pixie wrote:If we have the power to benefit others should we sit back and let Spirit decide their fate?
If we have power to benefit others and a link to spirit then I am sure this power will be utilized well.
.
Pixie wrote: Like if we see a biker get into a car accident, do we walk away from that entanglement and let Spirit sort the corpses? Or do we run over and apply pressure to bloody surfaces and speak to the person until Emergency Medical Services arrive? You seem like the type with a big heart who would intervene between others and Spirit.
I have not been in a situation where spirit indicated to me that I should let someone die. Have you?
You seem to put Spirit in a very passive role. I don't know why you do that. I am not agreeing with you
. In my experience, the best way to get things done that concern life and awareness is to listen to Spirit and not one's self-importance.The type of help that is most needed sometimes escapes us (our awareness/mind) and this is why say if we don't listen and just act on what we think is best or on our fear etc and say run to try to prolong the life of someone that had an accident we might actually make stuff worse for the poor person. Maybe what we need to do as a shamanic practitioner is talk to the spirit of the person and help him or her prepare for the transition (it can make a very big difference if the person dies prepared or unprepared). Not beat at his or her chest and blow into his or her mouth etc. I am sure you understand it on this example. Hence I hope you can understand what I meant before.
All in all, it is not like you need to stop and ask for guidance to make every step. But the big decisions of affecting another person in a major way are something I would prefer to have backed up by Spirit. Sadly many people don't care what happens to people they mess/interact with (they care more about them having done what they think is right or needed by societal rules than what might actually be more helpful than that).
I do not ask the Spirit if I should go to the bathroom. There are decisions and Decisions.
.
Pixie wrote:You come from the school of thought that decisions are best left to Spirit.
It is not just about decisions it is about the shaman needing to make a shift, a move to a different AP etc. The shaman when in healing move utilizes the power of the Spirit. Same in other modes. One has a lot more good and precise impact when one moves with Spirit. It would be idiotic to leave Spirit out of the equation.
Like I said we are not talking here about going to the loo. One can ask the Spirit little things ofc too... like what present to give someone and such. But the big things... if a shaman leaves the Spirit out of that they do not aid themselves or the person they are trying to aid.
.
Pixie wrote: You seem like the type with a big heart who would intervene between others and Spirit.
You imply that the aim of the person and the aim of Spirit differs. Do you think Spirit wants someone dead that could be saved? This is a bit too theoretical for me but you seem to be implying this. I would say that whatever the case a person needs to do stuff to the best of their ability and in sync with their spirit/soul - their own and the other persons' (I presonally would prefer that a person lives and would do what I can for that but if I push and force this onto the situation and onto a person that it does not help anymore I may not only be unhelpful but I may make things worse by maybe giving more pain to the person as a consequence or by not doing other things that would have been a lot more helpful). Since I do not have this experience I cannot imagine that I'd have to fight the Spirit
. Basically, if you have to fight the Spirit then all of shamanism collapses (or does it? hmm hehe)
. Spirit is not the same as the rolling force etc. The rolling force does not tell you to take care of the person's soul in transitioning. But then what do I know about rolling force? This is what I think heh.