06-12-2012, 12:00 AM
great speculations should go both ways
sure you can speculate that its utter bs
or you could speculate it without doubt and push the envelope castaneda told in his stories
I attended a seminar wherein carlos said aloud to the all of us in attendance, : " _____"
-something to the effect that if he told us the truth of his experiences it'd fry our minds.
When he said, fry our minds, it was insinuated, at least from my perspective, by the tone of
his voice that he meant we would think was lying.
The emblazened scene in our minds is the one where he jumps off the cliff and wakes up in LA!
Certainly we can speculate within the accords of reason that indeed this is false.
But to balance things out so that the whole brain can communicate with itself
you'd have to speculate the opposite way with equal force.
The emblazing speculation
Castaneda's on the cliff with don juan and don juan tells him he's leaving.
Don Juan's silence is in the most pristine condition possible as is Carlos's.
A bird caws in the distance, and thunder can be heard rumbling through the
desert mountains. The thunder gradually turned into the familar force both
of them have supposedly shared during the course of their time together
- the sound Carlos first encountered in his trip to see Mescalito. And
this force is the same one Carlos encountered on the highway ride between
san diego and tucson when he said a dust storm kicked up and blew fury
at him for hours and came along some guy in a truck - a semi the drive
of which pretty much had the same power don juan - the power to call
the vibratory force to your side.
On the mountain top as don Juan is leaving perhaps carlos witnesses this
vibratory force for the first time in a sober state of awareness. Carlos
actually steps into this world as he duly believes it is dream of great
proportions. Here he meets and sees and all of don juan's party. And
he sees his timeline with these new people and see's he and don juan,
as well as three other women and he knows that he has spent a lot
there in the last 13 years dating all the way back to the first time
don juan and carlos met in the greyhound station back then.
They all say good-bye to eachother and vibratory force disappears
in a flash of blinding yellow shine and carlos finds himself on the cliff.
All alone. Longing for this group of people, this memory of this moment
and their departure and yet his first time meeting them from sober awareness.
From here he see's who don juan popped in the back to induce the realm of the vibratory
force into him. He doesn't feel offended, used, or abused by all the different ways, genero
and silvio manuel physically manipulated his body to induce this vibratory world.
idk maybe he spends hours on the cliff writing. If he's a compassionate man he weeps for
the contradiction in his emotional mindset -saying good bye forever to a group of
intimate teachers for whom you are indebted to for-life, and the fact that he's a bumbling
shaman moron who never see them again ever. And he can't have any doubt over the gift
they have given him.
Or is his mind fried and he actually smoked a joint on top of the Hollywood Hills, and
thought about throwing himself off, so that someone would find his short ass, and just
love him and except him for who he is. One his way down he makes some new friends,
drinks 1/3 of a 5th of Jack Daniels and wakes up in the morning not knowing how he
got back home.
he gets outta bed opens a beer and flips open a 1936 facsimile at the UCLA library. Nueva Corónica y Buen Gobierno- 1615, and goes to the chapter in Spanish "Capitulo De Los Comon Hichezeros" Hechizeros = sorcerers.
Later in the day, after scholarly reading and bear 10am-3:15pm he finishes the day with a little
non-fictional writing of a shaman and his apprentice and at five goes out with a friend for dinner.
Or without any doubt he knows and looks at the tremendous scope of the power and knowledge
of these people whom he's just met and left that makes aliens, war and sex meaningless. He
would have no doubt that these people had access to the universe at large that is not in anyway
measured equally by any other religion he'd ever studied.
I think here he would have run and jumped off the cliff and spent years anywhere between 3
and 15 years and possibly up to 36 years in the vibratory realm. Somewhere in this time
period he must've remembered or been drawn to something back here in the tonal and came
back only to find himself in 1982 living in Los Angeles, CA. He spents three years here
trying to figure out what in the heck is going on. he reads his books published between
1971 and 1982 for the first time and is furious! He can't believe it! Why did he
write about this? He feels as if someone has hijacked his career
so he tries to call back the vibratory force because he wants
his timeline back he wants to live it as he did after 1971. He wants to go back to 1972.
working himself into a huge crazy two year old temper tantrum fit of rage and despair
he drives to mexico and throws himself off the same cliff don juan left upon in the hopes he will
enter the vibratory force world. It works. He spends the next 6-7 years in the vibratory
world and comes back the tonal in 1987. He spends 16 minutes wondering around
an art festival in grand rapids, mi. here he feels the presence of the Nagual woman
and three other ladies but they are not so distinct. This is his second linear time
interacting with the women. After the 16 minutes pass his tonal flings him back to the Vibratory realm
where he spends twelve years doing and learning and battling against the most
unfathomable odds and pops back into the tonal in Mexico City laying in a bed
with the nagual/woman death defier in the late 1960's.
Carlos realizes don juan is still alive and he can go seem him.
In Carlos linear timeline of his experiences
as he possibly may have experienced them this is his only second time
meeting Carol Tiggs, first-time in the flesh of the tonal and first time
he meets the death Defier energy.
Castaneda tells Carol that he want to get back to 1972 so he can
fall in love with her and get married and live a 70's style life. He tells her
that he longs to know her more deeply.
This meeting is recounted in Carol Tiggs talk on 5/95.
(She also mentioned an american actor from the 30's or 40's who smoked
a pipe and this character became a regular also in that world where
she and CC went in dreaming. this old man wich spoke with a special
accent used to call Carol "honey" and also used to call Carlos
"shorty")
"..like any other visit to this world it started when we found
ourselves naked in that bed, suddenly we heard someone coming, carlos
got himself inside a closet that was in the room, he wanted to hide
from whoever was coming but he was not able to shut the door closed
from the inside. At that moment the little girl came into the room
shouting as ever 'not again mami', she went directly to the closet and
shut the door closed right on carlos's nose. At that moment i heard
the footsteps of the old man with the pipe, he entered the room and
said "whats up honey", i noticed that he had a newspaper in his hand
and i became intrigued with it, i tried deperately to catch a glimpse
of it trying to figure out in what language was it written or what was
the date on this publication, i knew that Carlos will be very
interested in this newspaper because since he is scientifically
oriented he would love to corroborate whatever info from this world in
"our real world". so i dont know where i got the nerve to snatch the
paper from his hand as the old man was leaving the room and hurried to
lay it flat on the bed to see its contents. There were color pictures
of people but when i fixed my attention to the text i noticed that the
characters where not the alphabet we use, they where some sort of
"symbols" like spirals, triangles and circles. i was so excited that i
wanted Carlos to see it so i went to the closet to let him out but i
noticed that there was no door knob or anything to open it i started
to get anxious that the oldman would come back when i heard Carlos
voice comming from inside the closet instructing me about a dark spot
on the floor that i had to step on, i looked down at the floor and i
saw the dark spot wich looked like a button, i steped on it and the
door opened and Carlos jumped out with feline agility. i showed him
the newspaper and he was perplexed all he told me was "this is real
Tiggs... this is real" we heard footsteps again and we jumped into the
bed and started to twirl like the other times until we woke up in our
beds."
"... in order to get in and out of these "other worlds" one must be
very sober and in control because if you "hooked" to something in that
world (like the newspaper) you will be lost in that world cause you
will forget from where you come from and you will end up living and
dying in this world. that is why the path of the warrior needs to be
impecable because when you become a "navegante" (navigator) you can
not afford any mistake. This world was very similar to ours because
people also got old and died. actually we saw the little girl grow
up."
(From Mexico City - May 1995
[ 1995 Index | Previous | Next ]
To: The Ixtlan Mailing List
Date: 95-05-27 18:29:25 EDT
Report on the Tensegrity Workshop held May 19-21 in Mexico City.)
Carlos stays with the Death Defier for days in the tonal and an eternity
in the nagual. They travel back and forth and the Death Defier shows
Carlos how not to get caught in one view or the other (the view of
the apartment building next door/view of beach - as written about
in his last book).
Carlos still wants to get back to 1971 the moment don juan left the world
because he wants to know what he did after he wanted to write about the
scope of don juans knowledge he wanted to present at the world academy
of sciences and had aspiratations to get rumored to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
But he still hasn't yet got a handle on how to call the vibratory force
(or rather elicit and command the spirit). Carol Tiggs shows him how.
He goes back into the tonal in 1971 standing on the cliff. Don Juan left moments ago.
He gathers up his things and begins to head for his car intending to drive home
and mull over the different ways to present the scope and power of don Juan's
knowledge to united nations, to presidents and kings, to school and universities
across the country and all over the world. He wouldn't write about Tales of Power,
or the apprentices he'd begin an authentic hermanuetic study.
I think that this speculation, even though it is opposite to the usual speculation that occurs
here, in this forum is a very good thing to practice.
Given the theoretical position of Don juan - time walker from the ancient mexico who said in
one of carlos' books that "when a sorcerer comes back to this furrow
he doesn't always have to come back to the same period of time in his life' - speculations
on the good, the bad and the ugly are always bold. Can't have enough boldly thinking people
in a world like this one.
sure you can speculate that its utter bs
or you could speculate it without doubt and push the envelope castaneda told in his stories
I attended a seminar wherein carlos said aloud to the all of us in attendance, : " _____"
-something to the effect that if he told us the truth of his experiences it'd fry our minds.
When he said, fry our minds, it was insinuated, at least from my perspective, by the tone of
his voice that he meant we would think was lying.
The emblazened scene in our minds is the one where he jumps off the cliff and wakes up in LA!
Certainly we can speculate within the accords of reason that indeed this is false.
But to balance things out so that the whole brain can communicate with itself
you'd have to speculate the opposite way with equal force.
The emblazing speculation
Castaneda's on the cliff with don juan and don juan tells him he's leaving.
Don Juan's silence is in the most pristine condition possible as is Carlos's.
A bird caws in the distance, and thunder can be heard rumbling through the
desert mountains. The thunder gradually turned into the familar force both
of them have supposedly shared during the course of their time together
- the sound Carlos first encountered in his trip to see Mescalito. And
this force is the same one Carlos encountered on the highway ride between
san diego and tucson when he said a dust storm kicked up and blew fury
at him for hours and came along some guy in a truck - a semi the drive
of which pretty much had the same power don juan - the power to call
the vibratory force to your side.
On the mountain top as don Juan is leaving perhaps carlos witnesses this
vibratory force for the first time in a sober state of awareness. Carlos
actually steps into this world as he duly believes it is dream of great
proportions. Here he meets and sees and all of don juan's party. And
he sees his timeline with these new people and see's he and don juan,
as well as three other women and he knows that he has spent a lot
there in the last 13 years dating all the way back to the first time
don juan and carlos met in the greyhound station back then.
They all say good-bye to eachother and vibratory force disappears
in a flash of blinding yellow shine and carlos finds himself on the cliff.
All alone. Longing for this group of people, this memory of this moment
and their departure and yet his first time meeting them from sober awareness.
From here he see's who don juan popped in the back to induce the realm of the vibratory
force into him. He doesn't feel offended, used, or abused by all the different ways, genero
and silvio manuel physically manipulated his body to induce this vibratory world.
idk maybe he spends hours on the cliff writing. If he's a compassionate man he weeps for
the contradiction in his emotional mindset -saying good bye forever to a group of
intimate teachers for whom you are indebted to for-life, and the fact that he's a bumbling
shaman moron who never see them again ever. And he can't have any doubt over the gift
they have given him.
Or is his mind fried and he actually smoked a joint on top of the Hollywood Hills, and
thought about throwing himself off, so that someone would find his short ass, and just
love him and except him for who he is. One his way down he makes some new friends,
drinks 1/3 of a 5th of Jack Daniels and wakes up in the morning not knowing how he
got back home.
he gets outta bed opens a beer and flips open a 1936 facsimile at the UCLA library. Nueva Corónica y Buen Gobierno- 1615, and goes to the chapter in Spanish "Capitulo De Los Comon Hichezeros" Hechizeros = sorcerers.
Later in the day, after scholarly reading and bear 10am-3:15pm he finishes the day with a little
non-fictional writing of a shaman and his apprentice and at five goes out with a friend for dinner.
Or without any doubt he knows and looks at the tremendous scope of the power and knowledge
of these people whom he's just met and left that makes aliens, war and sex meaningless. He
would have no doubt that these people had access to the universe at large that is not in anyway
measured equally by any other religion he'd ever studied.
I think here he would have run and jumped off the cliff and spent years anywhere between 3
and 15 years and possibly up to 36 years in the vibratory realm. Somewhere in this time
period he must've remembered or been drawn to something back here in the tonal and came
back only to find himself in 1982 living in Los Angeles, CA. He spents three years here
trying to figure out what in the heck is going on. he reads his books published between
1971 and 1982 for the first time and is furious! He can't believe it! Why did he
write about this? He feels as if someone has hijacked his career
so he tries to call back the vibratory force because he wants
his timeline back he wants to live it as he did after 1971. He wants to go back to 1972.
working himself into a huge crazy two year old temper tantrum fit of rage and despair
he drives to mexico and throws himself off the same cliff don juan left upon in the hopes he will
enter the vibratory force world. It works. He spends the next 6-7 years in the vibratory
world and comes back the tonal in 1987. He spends 16 minutes wondering around
an art festival in grand rapids, mi. here he feels the presence of the Nagual woman
and three other ladies but they are not so distinct. This is his second linear time
interacting with the women. After the 16 minutes pass his tonal flings him back to the Vibratory realm
where he spends twelve years doing and learning and battling against the most
unfathomable odds and pops back into the tonal in Mexico City laying in a bed
with the nagual/woman death defier in the late 1960's.
Carlos realizes don juan is still alive and he can go seem him.
In Carlos linear timeline of his experiences
as he possibly may have experienced them this is his only second time
meeting Carol Tiggs, first-time in the flesh of the tonal and first time
he meets the death Defier energy.
Castaneda tells Carol that he want to get back to 1972 so he can
fall in love with her and get married and live a 70's style life. He tells her
that he longs to know her more deeply.
This meeting is recounted in Carol Tiggs talk on 5/95.
(She also mentioned an american actor from the 30's or 40's who smoked
a pipe and this character became a regular also in that world where
she and CC went in dreaming. this old man wich spoke with a special
accent used to call Carol "honey" and also used to call Carlos
"shorty")
"..like any other visit to this world it started when we found
ourselves naked in that bed, suddenly we heard someone coming, carlos
got himself inside a closet that was in the room, he wanted to hide
from whoever was coming but he was not able to shut the door closed
from the inside. At that moment the little girl came into the room
shouting as ever 'not again mami', she went directly to the closet and
shut the door closed right on carlos's nose. At that moment i heard
the footsteps of the old man with the pipe, he entered the room and
said "whats up honey", i noticed that he had a newspaper in his hand
and i became intrigued with it, i tried deperately to catch a glimpse
of it trying to figure out in what language was it written or what was
the date on this publication, i knew that Carlos will be very
interested in this newspaper because since he is scientifically
oriented he would love to corroborate whatever info from this world in
"our real world". so i dont know where i got the nerve to snatch the
paper from his hand as the old man was leaving the room and hurried to
lay it flat on the bed to see its contents. There were color pictures
of people but when i fixed my attention to the text i noticed that the
characters where not the alphabet we use, they where some sort of
"symbols" like spirals, triangles and circles. i was so excited that i
wanted Carlos to see it so i went to the closet to let him out but i
noticed that there was no door knob or anything to open it i started
to get anxious that the oldman would come back when i heard Carlos
voice comming from inside the closet instructing me about a dark spot
on the floor that i had to step on, i looked down at the floor and i
saw the dark spot wich looked like a button, i steped on it and the
door opened and Carlos jumped out with feline agility. i showed him
the newspaper and he was perplexed all he told me was "this is real
Tiggs... this is real" we heard footsteps again and we jumped into the
bed and started to twirl like the other times until we woke up in our
beds."
"... in order to get in and out of these "other worlds" one must be
very sober and in control because if you "hooked" to something in that
world (like the newspaper) you will be lost in that world cause you
will forget from where you come from and you will end up living and
dying in this world. that is why the path of the warrior needs to be
impecable because when you become a "navegante" (navigator) you can
not afford any mistake. This world was very similar to ours because
people also got old and died. actually we saw the little girl grow
up."
(From Mexico City - May 1995
[ 1995 Index | Previous | Next ]
To: The Ixtlan Mailing List
Date: 95-05-27 18:29:25 EDT
Report on the Tensegrity Workshop held May 19-21 in Mexico City.)
Carlos stays with the Death Defier for days in the tonal and an eternity
in the nagual. They travel back and forth and the Death Defier shows
Carlos how not to get caught in one view or the other (the view of
the apartment building next door/view of beach - as written about
in his last book).
Carlos still wants to get back to 1971 the moment don juan left the world
because he wants to know what he did after he wanted to write about the
scope of don juans knowledge he wanted to present at the world academy
of sciences and had aspiratations to get rumored to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
But he still hasn't yet got a handle on how to call the vibratory force
(or rather elicit and command the spirit). Carol Tiggs shows him how.
He goes back into the tonal in 1971 standing on the cliff. Don Juan left moments ago.
He gathers up his things and begins to head for his car intending to drive home
and mull over the different ways to present the scope and power of don Juan's
knowledge to united nations, to presidents and kings, to school and universities
across the country and all over the world. He wouldn't write about Tales of Power,
or the apprentices he'd begin an authentic hermanuetic study.
I think that this speculation, even though it is opposite to the usual speculation that occurs
here, in this forum is a very good thing to practice.
Given the theoretical position of Don juan - time walker from the ancient mexico who said in
one of carlos' books that "when a sorcerer comes back to this furrow
he doesn't always have to come back to the same period of time in his life' - speculations
on the good, the bad and the ugly are always bold. Can't have enough boldly thinking people
in a world like this one.