10-17-2010, 12:01 AM
Raven Knight wrote:It's ok if the world is destroyed? Even if all the people could make their way to another planet, what about the countless other inhabitants of the planet? And what is to keep the new world from getting destroyed? IMO, this is one of the problems with the world... too many people place absolutely no value on the other beings we share this planet with. And if it is humans that bring about such destruction with rampant consumption and overpopulation, then those irresponsible humans who still have not learned are the least deserving of a new world.
Ok, you are overlooking something here about what a consumer is. You call such irresponsible and undeserving of a "new world". But what is a consumer really...
Unless you live naked in a cave or other natural habitat and basically
eat only berries and other replenishable fruits...you are a consumer. Take for example the clothes you are wearing, they were manufactured in a
factory (unless you made them yourself including the making of the fabric...I doubt it), probably in China or other third world nation, many of which
are often coal run. What about furniture, computer, car, the appliances in your house?, all manufactured goods
that contribute to the globalization and consequent "imbalance" of the
ecosystem. So if you are really serious and want to be blameless in all
of this, stop consuming period. Because as long as you are consuming
anything, you are participating and are really doing no different then
the rest. You may say you consume less, but still its consuming and
altering the earth as a result, not to mention supplying the future incentive for business to keep make goods. The whole reason businesses do this is because you, I, and everyone else is buying it. This network is so vast and integrated that even if you try your hardest to support only those business that are eco-friendly and such, you will still consequently be supporting the businesses that aren't this way such as oil companies and auto makers (unless you never ride in any man-made vehicle).
So are you undeserving and irresponsible too? You don't like it but its ok for you to do it too anyway, because at least you know its wrong and are doing something about it? Doesn't add up. Stopping consumption is the only way to do something about it (counter its effects), and given that, look at how you would actually have to live...in prehistoric conditions, in order to avoid being the modern consumer of this highly integrated system. Since you participate on the Internet, I can see already you are a consumer and live in a dwelling supplied by electricity, which comes from electric companies (nuclear power), so every time you pay the bill, thats money you are sending to let them know they should be in business, and every time you use electricity (even if you aren't the one paying the bill) you are consuming it, thus justifying its demand.
I had a friend in college, she believed very strongly in the natural life. She took her baby girl and they lived in a teepee for a while. I respected her for that, it gets pretty cold in the southwest desert of NM in fall-spring. But she did eventually come back to modern convinces (and continued to attend school while living in the teepee), still I respect her effort to try and live naturally according to her beliefs at the time. Its not for me though, and I don't feel guilty about it, because I have yet to meet another person who is not living with modern convinces like me as well, this friend included. I don't care how much you consume or if you recycle and whatever you do, a consumer is still a consumer, period. Animals consume other plants and animals, etc. Just because humans have found new ways to consume does not mean its anything new.
Do we need to fear destruction? Here's my response on that...
The law of conservation of energy
is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of
energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be
conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed:
it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing
that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form:
for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.
Albert Einstein's theory of relativity shows that energy and mass are
the same thing, and that neither one appears without the other. Thus in
closed systems, both mass and energy are conserved separately, just as
was understood in pre-relativistic physics. The new feature of
relativistic physics is that "matter" particles (such as those
constituting atoms) could be converted to non-matter forms of energy,
such as light; or kinetic and potential energy (example: heat). However,
this conversion does not affect the total mass of systems, since the
latter forms of
non-matter energy still retain their mass through any such
conversion.[1]I'm not scientifically inclined, but have always felt the indestructibility of energy is their greatest "law".
Ok, you are overlooking something here about what a consumer is. You call such irresponsible and undeserving of a "new world". But what is a consumer really...
Unless you live naked in a cave or other natural habitat and basically
eat only berries and other replenishable fruits...you are a consumer. Take for example the clothes you are wearing, they were manufactured in a
factory (unless you made them yourself including the making of the fabric...I doubt it), probably in China or other third world nation, many of which
are often coal run. What about furniture, computer, car, the appliances in your house?, all manufactured goods
that contribute to the globalization and consequent "imbalance" of the
ecosystem. So if you are really serious and want to be blameless in all
of this, stop consuming period. Because as long as you are consuming
anything, you are participating and are really doing no different then
the rest. You may say you consume less, but still its consuming and
altering the earth as a result, not to mention supplying the future incentive for business to keep make goods. The whole reason businesses do this is because you, I, and everyone else is buying it. This network is so vast and integrated that even if you try your hardest to support only those business that are eco-friendly and such, you will still consequently be supporting the businesses that aren't this way such as oil companies and auto makers (unless you never ride in any man-made vehicle).
So are you undeserving and irresponsible too? You don't like it but its ok for you to do it too anyway, because at least you know its wrong and are doing something about it? Doesn't add up. Stopping consumption is the only way to do something about it (counter its effects), and given that, look at how you would actually have to live...in prehistoric conditions, in order to avoid being the modern consumer of this highly integrated system. Since you participate on the Internet, I can see already you are a consumer and live in a dwelling supplied by electricity, which comes from electric companies (nuclear power), so every time you pay the bill, thats money you are sending to let them know they should be in business, and every time you use electricity (even if you aren't the one paying the bill) you are consuming it, thus justifying its demand.
I had a friend in college, she believed very strongly in the natural life. She took her baby girl and they lived in a teepee for a while. I respected her for that, it gets pretty cold in the southwest desert of NM in fall-spring. But she did eventually come back to modern convinces (and continued to attend school while living in the teepee), still I respect her effort to try and live naturally according to her beliefs at the time. Its not for me though, and I don't feel guilty about it, because I have yet to meet another person who is not living with modern convinces like me as well, this friend included. I don't care how much you consume or if you recycle and whatever you do, a consumer is still a consumer, period. Animals consume other plants and animals, etc. Just because humans have found new ways to consume does not mean its anything new.
Do we need to fear destruction? Here's my response on that...
The law of conservation of energy
is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of
energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be
conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed:
it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing
that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form:
for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.
Albert Einstein's theory of relativity shows that energy and mass are
the same thing, and that neither one appears without the other. Thus in
closed systems, both mass and energy are conserved separately, just as
was understood in pre-relativistic physics. The new feature of
relativistic physics is that "matter" particles (such as those
constituting atoms) could be converted to non-matter forms of energy,
such as light; or kinetic and potential energy (example: heat). However,
this conversion does not affect the total mass of systems, since the
latter forms of
non-matter energy still retain their mass through any such
conversion.[1]I'm not scientifically inclined, but have always felt the indestructibility of energy is their greatest "law".