06-15-2010, 12:00 AM
Tiff wrote:
Once we stop participating in the idea of a connection, its neither. One is alone with everything.
One is alone with everything regardless, however, there is always the choice whether to connect or not with another being. It is not an "idea of connection" - it is a matter of a palpable energetic link.
So you are just flat out assuming that energetic links are absolutes? That consciousness cannot operate outside these perimeters?
Absolutes? I suppose so...they exist and, as I said, are palpable. How this relates to consciousness being limited I have no idea.
Tiff wrote: In the instance of terminating a nagual connection it is, as stated, both an extreme measure as well as a painful measure.
What makes you say this?
Personal experience.
Well, I have personal experience in this too, and it was not extreme or painful. Which is why I asked.
c'est la vie
Tiff wrote: One was not free to make the connection, which is why they made it in the first place. If one was free, there would have been no reason to make it.
The connection was made quite consciously and with purpose. The reasons to make it also, were well known.
I'm sure there was purpose. Reasons may have been well known. Still, this tells nothing of freedom.
There was no comment about freedom.
Tiff wrote: Then, eventually, one can finally get enough personal power "accumulated" just a word mind you, to leave. Then they appear to be leaving. Its just an appearance, as was the approaching, all in intent. It is important to release this idea as well, for leaving is just as much an act "of a self" as was arriving.
The act of leaving (terminating the energetic connection) is not an appearance but a conscious act. The implication that "we are all one" does not mean we each lack uniquely identifiable essence.
Who identifies the essence? Where is the essence located?
"Cogito ergo sum" - that which thinks is the essence, located wherever one thinks.
Tiff wrote:Stop the world. That's what DJ encouraged Carlos to do. Stop all of it.
I believe this statement needs to be understood. What is to be stopped is interpretation. Truly stopping the world would terminate this superb experience of manifesting in human form.
Yes the statement needs to be understood. Why do you say that stopping the world would terminate the experience of form, lol? Phenomena need not be terminated. I would say stopping the world terminates the seemingly all-inclusive perception that form and energy are absolutes. That there is nothing beyond the experience of energy and form.
I didn't say stopping the world would terminate the experience of form. What I said was, imo, what the statement means is to "stop interpretation" of phenomena.
Tiff wrote: What do you think the definitive journey is? The way CC wrote about it, it alludes to an experience of existence so different from the one known here, doesn't it? Of course to say here and there is misleading as there is no here or there. These words merely describe shifts of awareness.
I think the definitive journey is one of reincarnation, that we are each unique beings of energy, that each time we choose to manifest in human form it is another opportunity for learning, that eventually we will leave the wheel of death and rebirth, that perhaps various teachings are relevant for various lifetimes, this one perhaps concerned with the teachings of don Juan, among others, at least for me personally.
In regard "here" and "there", you appear to be a proponent of the theory of non-dualism, with which I disagree, and would simply ask, "If there is something which is perceived, that implies there is a perceiver", which would describe dualism: i.e., a "here" and a "there", both of which are required to define one another.
Once we stop participating in the idea of a connection, its neither. One is alone with everything.
One is alone with everything regardless, however, there is always the choice whether to connect or not with another being. It is not an "idea of connection" - it is a matter of a palpable energetic link.
So you are just flat out assuming that energetic links are absolutes? That consciousness cannot operate outside these perimeters?
Absolutes? I suppose so...they exist and, as I said, are palpable. How this relates to consciousness being limited I have no idea.
Tiff wrote: In the instance of terminating a nagual connection it is, as stated, both an extreme measure as well as a painful measure.
What makes you say this?
Personal experience.
Well, I have personal experience in this too, and it was not extreme or painful. Which is why I asked.
c'est la vie
Tiff wrote: One was not free to make the connection, which is why they made it in the first place. If one was free, there would have been no reason to make it.
The connection was made quite consciously and with purpose. The reasons to make it also, were well known.
I'm sure there was purpose. Reasons may have been well known. Still, this tells nothing of freedom.
There was no comment about freedom.
Tiff wrote: Then, eventually, one can finally get enough personal power "accumulated" just a word mind you, to leave. Then they appear to be leaving. Its just an appearance, as was the approaching, all in intent. It is important to release this idea as well, for leaving is just as much an act "of a self" as was arriving.
The act of leaving (terminating the energetic connection) is not an appearance but a conscious act. The implication that "we are all one" does not mean we each lack uniquely identifiable essence.
Who identifies the essence? Where is the essence located?
"Cogito ergo sum" - that which thinks is the essence, located wherever one thinks.
Tiff wrote:Stop the world. That's what DJ encouraged Carlos to do. Stop all of it.
I believe this statement needs to be understood. What is to be stopped is interpretation. Truly stopping the world would terminate this superb experience of manifesting in human form.
Yes the statement needs to be understood. Why do you say that stopping the world would terminate the experience of form, lol? Phenomena need not be terminated. I would say stopping the world terminates the seemingly all-inclusive perception that form and energy are absolutes. That there is nothing beyond the experience of energy and form.
I didn't say stopping the world would terminate the experience of form. What I said was, imo, what the statement means is to "stop interpretation" of phenomena.
Tiff wrote: What do you think the definitive journey is? The way CC wrote about it, it alludes to an experience of existence so different from the one known here, doesn't it? Of course to say here and there is misleading as there is no here or there. These words merely describe shifts of awareness.
I think the definitive journey is one of reincarnation, that we are each unique beings of energy, that each time we choose to manifest in human form it is another opportunity for learning, that eventually we will leave the wheel of death and rebirth, that perhaps various teachings are relevant for various lifetimes, this one perhaps concerned with the teachings of don Juan, among others, at least for me personally.
In regard "here" and "there", you appear to be a proponent of the theory of non-dualism, with which I disagree, and would simply ask, "If there is something which is perceived, that implies there is a perceiver", which would describe dualism: i.e., a "here" and a "there", both of which are required to define one another.