03-06-2006, 12:00 AM
From cultural point of view I have got two references as to what the double is .... Finno-Ugric/Siberian and Australian Aboriginal.
But as to what the 'double' means in Nagualism, I'm not too sure .....
In both Finno-Ugric/Siberian and Australian Aboriginal cultures the double is related to a Totemic Ancestor.
In Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime ....
.... Ancestral Spirit Beings, both in their animal & human forms roamed the earth.
They created in their epic adventures the features of the land; the rivers, hills, waterholes & rock formations .... all species.
they controlled the movement of the sun and the moon, the stars, rainclouds & tides and established Sacred Laws and customs.
Conception Totem:
The life cycle of an Aboriginal person doesn't start at the moment of birth, but at the time of conception.
Of course Aboriginal people know about intercourse and it's results, but for Aboriginal people The Spiritual Essence of the child is more important than the physical aspects, therefore by conception .... what is meant, is when this Spiritual Essence enters the womb. This is a moment a pregnant woman recognizes .... and where this moment of recognition takes place .... on what Ancestral Spirit 'Dreaming Track' .... near what 'Spirit Pool' .... Site .... determines the child's Totem. It is his/her Conception Totem.
Conception Totems then are Spirits of specific places where mother/parents felt the child to have been conceived.
Conception Totem gives the child his/her identity, his/her connection to the land and it's Dreaming Spirit ..... therefore the person and his/her Dreaming Spirit (in a form of a Totem) and the land cannot be seen as separate things.
To belong to a Totem provides an individual with life long obligations .... (to the land as well as social and spiritual obligations).
In Finno-Ugric/Siberian Totemic system people also belonged to a totemic lineage by inheriting their mother's totemic line.
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In both of these cultures ....a person does not have a Totem Animal .... a person is his or her Totem Animal .... because one has got a Totemic Ancestor, this Totemic animal then being his/her "other dimensional" double.
In both of these cultures .... more perceptive emphasis is put onto this "other dimensional" (totemic) "double" than to a person.
In Finno-Ugric/Siberian culture this other dimensional double of a person was/is called/regarded as T-h-e (Real) Self .... rather than the physically manifested persona ... The word/name "T-h-e Self" is attached to the double in order to teach perceptual preference and also how to recognize it.
******************
In general .... in the modern western world we relate to one another person-to-person, but with indigenous folk relating is done more on double-to-double terms .... or more precisely incorporating both the physical manifestation of a person and their double perceptually ... (thus observing two perceptual realities in ordinary everyday existence).
Two reality orientations result from; -whether you identify/regard the physical manifestation as your (real) self .... or whether you identify/regard the other dimensional (totemic) double as your (real) self.
There is quite a remarkable difference.
Nagual Lone Wolf ...... could you please explain somethingins regards to what is meant by the double in (Toltec) Nagualism ?
Artnwere
P.S. I'm afraid I'm given to explanations ..... and if this is not in 'alignment' with the intent of the board please let me know.
But as to what the 'double' means in Nagualism, I'm not too sure .....
In both Finno-Ugric/Siberian and Australian Aboriginal cultures the double is related to a Totemic Ancestor.
In Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime ....
.... Ancestral Spirit Beings, both in their animal & human forms roamed the earth.
They created in their epic adventures the features of the land; the rivers, hills, waterholes & rock formations .... all species.
they controlled the movement of the sun and the moon, the stars, rainclouds & tides and established Sacred Laws and customs.
Conception Totem:
The life cycle of an Aboriginal person doesn't start at the moment of birth, but at the time of conception.
Of course Aboriginal people know about intercourse and it's results, but for Aboriginal people The Spiritual Essence of the child is more important than the physical aspects, therefore by conception .... what is meant, is when this Spiritual Essence enters the womb. This is a moment a pregnant woman recognizes .... and where this moment of recognition takes place .... on what Ancestral Spirit 'Dreaming Track' .... near what 'Spirit Pool' .... Site .... determines the child's Totem. It is his/her Conception Totem.
Conception Totems then are Spirits of specific places where mother/parents felt the child to have been conceived.
Conception Totem gives the child his/her identity, his/her connection to the land and it's Dreaming Spirit ..... therefore the person and his/her Dreaming Spirit (in a form of a Totem) and the land cannot be seen as separate things.
To belong to a Totem provides an individual with life long obligations .... (to the land as well as social and spiritual obligations).
In Finno-Ugric/Siberian Totemic system people also belonged to a totemic lineage by inheriting their mother's totemic line.
******************
In both of these cultures ....a person does not have a Totem Animal .... a person is his or her Totem Animal .... because one has got a Totemic Ancestor, this Totemic animal then being his/her "other dimensional" double.
In both of these cultures .... more perceptive emphasis is put onto this "other dimensional" (totemic) "double" than to a person.
In Finno-Ugric/Siberian culture this other dimensional double of a person was/is called/regarded as T-h-e (Real) Self .... rather than the physically manifested persona ... The word/name "T-h-e Self" is attached to the double in order to teach perceptual preference and also how to recognize it.
******************
In general .... in the modern western world we relate to one another person-to-person, but with indigenous folk relating is done more on double-to-double terms .... or more precisely incorporating both the physical manifestation of a person and their double perceptually ... (thus observing two perceptual realities in ordinary everyday existence).
Two reality orientations result from; -whether you identify/regard the physical manifestation as your (real) self .... or whether you identify/regard the other dimensional (totemic) double as your (real) self.
There is quite a remarkable difference.
Nagual Lone Wolf ...... could you please explain somethingins regards to what is meant by the double in (Toltec) Nagualism ?
Artnwere
P.S. I'm afraid I'm given to explanations ..... and if this is not in 'alignment' with the intent of the board please let me know.