01-05-2010, 12:00 AM
Hi, Charlila...
Just a couple of brief points for the sake of clarity.
With regard to the idea of reincarnation, there are many ways of looking at it. I was having a chat w/ someone a few days ago and he asked why I see
reincarnation as I do. This is my response:
Years ago, I sat in meditation for at least 2-3 hours every night. One night, I said to the cosmos, "Teach me about reincarnation." For
the next 2-3 hours, I was taken on a journey that amounted to observing my double moving through dozens of "lifetimes". Some were male, some female.
All were the same essence. After the experience ended, I asked him, "When did the lifetime in Greece happen, what timeframe?" He replied,
"Now." I was confused. "When did the lifetime as a Templar happen?" He replied, "Right now." This was the answer for each of the
"past lives" I had witnessed. As I was instructed to wrap my mind around it, I was shown the reality that "time" is not some linear
construct as humans believe. As I observed these "past lives" they felt like something from "ancient history". But they were all occurring
simultaneously - a function of the double/higher-self which has NOTHING to do with dying and being reborn, but is more concerned with direct experience which
cannot be wrapped into the timeframe of a single human lifespan, and so the spirit finds a way to free itself and move through "time" in hundreds or
even thousands of "past lives" which aren't past at all... just movements of the double within the "now" of our current life. When we
mis-interpret or mis-perceive that, we distance ourselves from our own reality and call it "reincarnation."
The other side of it is that my own experience has proven (to me at least) that if we don't develop the double (energy body, dreaming body, spirit-body),
there is really nowhere for these "past live" to even occur. But, hey, I'm a radical - a hardcore realist when it comes to notions about the
soul, the afterlife, burning with the fire from within, and infinite continuity. I don't think it just happens. I think we either create the means FOR it
to happen, or we perish in the eagle's beak. Not a particularly rosy outlook, just how I have come to see it - so to me it's important how I view
"reincarnation." If/when I think of it in linear, Newtonian time-terms, it starts to resemble more of a religious belief than any quantifiable
reality. On the other hand, when I can *see* it as a movement of the double in the Now (the "now" being defined here as the span of my mortal life),
it also becomes very obvious WHY we need to work with the double as the vessel of our continuity which reaches BEYOND this mortal lifespan.
Impossible to put all of this in a condensed version, largely because it's the assimilation of a lifetime on the path.
You asked if my double showed any identification. Heh. Sure. He has shown me myself - the mirror of the infinite. I've also had some experience with IOBs,
and the energy signature of one's double is unmistakable - in other words, not possible to mistake one of the "baddies" for your own double,
particularly if you've been on the path for any length of time and have worked extensively with your own double.
DJM said...
The self dreams the double. Once it has learned to dream the double, the self arrives at this weird crossroad and a moment comes when one realizes that it is
the double who dreams the self. Your double is dreaming you. No one knows how it happens. We only know that it does happen. That's the mystery of us as
luminous beings. You can awaken in either one. (don Juan, TALES OF POWER)
What can actually be observed over a long period of time is that when "the double is dreaming you", the double has not only become
teacher/guide/mentor (i.e., your greatest teacher is your Self), but the double has also taken on a form of "autonomy" which includes but isn't
limited to "past lives" - the actual 'acting out' of experiences which are required by the mortal self for learning, but which the mortal
self may not be able to 'act out' due to time, space, gender, et al. The double has no such restrictions, so is free to move both inside and outside of
time/space/gender.
But... that's all just background noise. My apologies. I'm new here and don't know anyone's background or personal mindset, so I'm
simply offering my own as a way of introduction. Not important if we agree on the specifics... just wanted to offer out where I'm coming from, so to speak.
I'm very sorry for the loss of your daughter and wish you both comfort and "the edge."
thank you Della
you mean - you think the dead are still needing their "edge"?
(or you think Meitar does?)
Bad wording on my part. What I meant was that I am wishing YOU the edge and comfort at the same time. I do not believe the dead need anything, other than
peace... if that is their wish.
not slightly contradictory? you claimed death is final...
oh, but you clamed the totality of oneself is the sum of all incarnations, past present and future...
Again, not easy to render it all down to just a few words due to the degree of complexity of the subject. Heh. It would take years, and then the answer may
simply be... 42. LOL. But seriously... for the sake of clarification - let me say that I perceive our mortal lives as finite UNLESS we take whatever steps must
be taken to facilitate our evolution. To me personally, one of those steps is the creation & nurturing of the double - which I have come to view as the
energetic vessel which holds the potential to house our awareness following our mortal death. And, of course, that's further assuming that one doesn't
take the route of becoming a death defier or tenant. As I said... degrees of complexity make it impossible to give a single, simple answer. Personally, I
perceive death as final for beings whom don Juan referred to as "ordinary men" - meaning those who never take any measures to evolve beyond the
organic form they inhabit. But for those who take death as their advisor and look squarely at the reality of "beings who are going to die" and then
begin to live their lives accordingly... maybe (only a maybe) there is an alternative to this thing we call "death".
Just my own rambling thoughts on a cool Tuesday morning here in the desert.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for your feedback.
Many blessings,
Della
Just a couple of brief points for the sake of clarity.
With regard to the idea of reincarnation, there are many ways of looking at it. I was having a chat w/ someone a few days ago and he asked why I see
reincarnation as I do. This is my response:
Years ago, I sat in meditation for at least 2-3 hours every night. One night, I said to the cosmos, "Teach me about reincarnation." For
the next 2-3 hours, I was taken on a journey that amounted to observing my double moving through dozens of "lifetimes". Some were male, some female.
All were the same essence. After the experience ended, I asked him, "When did the lifetime in Greece happen, what timeframe?" He replied,
"Now." I was confused. "When did the lifetime as a Templar happen?" He replied, "Right now." This was the answer for each of the
"past lives" I had witnessed. As I was instructed to wrap my mind around it, I was shown the reality that "time" is not some linear
construct as humans believe. As I observed these "past lives" they felt like something from "ancient history". But they were all occurring
simultaneously - a function of the double/higher-self which has NOTHING to do with dying and being reborn, but is more concerned with direct experience which
cannot be wrapped into the timeframe of a single human lifespan, and so the spirit finds a way to free itself and move through "time" in hundreds or
even thousands of "past lives" which aren't past at all... just movements of the double within the "now" of our current life. When we
mis-interpret or mis-perceive that, we distance ourselves from our own reality and call it "reincarnation."
The other side of it is that my own experience has proven (to me at least) that if we don't develop the double (energy body, dreaming body, spirit-body),
there is really nowhere for these "past live" to even occur. But, hey, I'm a radical - a hardcore realist when it comes to notions about the
soul, the afterlife, burning with the fire from within, and infinite continuity. I don't think it just happens. I think we either create the means FOR it
to happen, or we perish in the eagle's beak. Not a particularly rosy outlook, just how I have come to see it - so to me it's important how I view
"reincarnation." If/when I think of it in linear, Newtonian time-terms, it starts to resemble more of a religious belief than any quantifiable
reality. On the other hand, when I can *see* it as a movement of the double in the Now (the "now" being defined here as the span of my mortal life),
it also becomes very obvious WHY we need to work with the double as the vessel of our continuity which reaches BEYOND this mortal lifespan.
Impossible to put all of this in a condensed version, largely because it's the assimilation of a lifetime on the path.
You asked if my double showed any identification. Heh. Sure. He has shown me myself - the mirror of the infinite. I've also had some experience with IOBs,
and the energy signature of one's double is unmistakable - in other words, not possible to mistake one of the "baddies" for your own double,
particularly if you've been on the path for any length of time and have worked extensively with your own double.
DJM said...
The self dreams the double. Once it has learned to dream the double, the self arrives at this weird crossroad and a moment comes when one realizes that it is
the double who dreams the self. Your double is dreaming you. No one knows how it happens. We only know that it does happen. That's the mystery of us as
luminous beings. You can awaken in either one. (don Juan, TALES OF POWER)
What can actually be observed over a long period of time is that when "the double is dreaming you", the double has not only become
teacher/guide/mentor (i.e., your greatest teacher is your Self), but the double has also taken on a form of "autonomy" which includes but isn't
limited to "past lives" - the actual 'acting out' of experiences which are required by the mortal self for learning, but which the mortal
self may not be able to 'act out' due to time, space, gender, et al. The double has no such restrictions, so is free to move both inside and outside of
time/space/gender.
But... that's all just background noise. My apologies. I'm new here and don't know anyone's background or personal mindset, so I'm
simply offering my own as a way of introduction. Not important if we agree on the specifics... just wanted to offer out where I'm coming from, so to speak.
I'm very sorry for the loss of your daughter and wish you both comfort and "the edge."
thank you Della
you mean - you think the dead are still needing their "edge"?
(or you think Meitar does?)
Bad wording on my part. What I meant was that I am wishing YOU the edge and comfort at the same time. I do not believe the dead need anything, other than
peace... if that is their wish.
not slightly contradictory? you claimed death is final...
oh, but you clamed the totality of oneself is the sum of all incarnations, past present and future...
Again, not easy to render it all down to just a few words due to the degree of complexity of the subject. Heh. It would take years, and then the answer may
simply be... 42. LOL. But seriously... for the sake of clarification - let me say that I perceive our mortal lives as finite UNLESS we take whatever steps must
be taken to facilitate our evolution. To me personally, one of those steps is the creation & nurturing of the double - which I have come to view as the
energetic vessel which holds the potential to house our awareness following our mortal death. And, of course, that's further assuming that one doesn't
take the route of becoming a death defier or tenant. As I said... degrees of complexity make it impossible to give a single, simple answer. Personally, I
perceive death as final for beings whom don Juan referred to as "ordinary men" - meaning those who never take any measures to evolve beyond the
organic form they inhabit. But for those who take death as their advisor and look squarely at the reality of "beings who are going to die" and then
begin to live their lives accordingly... maybe (only a maybe) there is an alternative to this thing we call "death".
Just my own rambling thoughts on a cool Tuesday morning here in the desert.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for your feedback.
Many blessings,
Della