11-24-2008, 12:00 AM
Mornings Son wrote:
What is the nature of time? Is it linear or not?
From wikipedia:
There is an appointed time (zman) for everything. And there is a time ('êth) for every event under heaven-
A time ('êth) to give birth, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted.
A time to kill, and a time to heal; A time to tear down, and a time to build up.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
A time to throw stones, and a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, and a time to shun embracing.
A time to search, and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep, and a time to throw away.
A time to tear apart, and a time to sew together; A time to be silent, and a time to speak.
A time to love, and a time to hate; A time for war, and a time for peace. - Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
This can be looked at in a variety of ways. For instance; "..A time to be silent, and a time to speak. " We on this forum know the reason and benefits for keeping silent internally. Also how to speak or write to each other to comunicate what we experience.
Someone involved in ceremonial magic and or astrology may look more towards propitious times to perform certain acts. As many also involed with Wicca do.
Any way you read these verses in Ecclesiastes they are true.
What level are you reading it at and do you think that is all it says? That is the problem with religion. They read at one level and think that they have an understanding of the subject written about and any other ideas about that subject must be wrong.
[edit] Linear and cyclical time
See also: Time Cycles and Wheel of time
In general, the Judaeo-Christian concept, based on the Bible, is that time is linear, with a beginning, the act of creation by God. The Christian view assumes also an end, the eschaton, expected to happen when Christ returns to earth in the Second Coming to judge the living and the dead. This will be the consummation of the world and time. St Augustine's City of God was the first developed application of this concept to world history. The Christian view is that God is uncreated and eternal so that He and the supernatural world are outside time and exist in eternity.
What is outside of time cannot be described. Either by science or religion. To communicate concepts we have only words to make use of. The Bible starts with "In the Beginning" ( the second world, the world of "creation") science starts at what is created and goes "backwards" to the "Big Bang." Both descriptions stop at the beginning of time and space and matter.
The advantage that the Bible has is that it goes beyond this in telling us how we can Experience the Reality that lies beyond this boundary. Just because something cannot be described does not mean we cannot experience it firsthand.
Ancient cultures such as Incan, Mayan, Hopi, and other Native American Tribes, plus the Babylonian, Ancient Greek, Hindu, Buddhist, Jainist, and others have a concept of a wheel of time, that regards time as cyclical and quantic consisting of repeating ages that happen to every being of the Universe between birth and extinction.
Cycles are also covered in the Bible. Spirals may be more accurate though. Even though the world spins on it's axis and revovles around the sun and the sun travels a circular path etc., when one circle or cycle is complete, nothing is where it was when the circle or cycle began. So this would necessarily dictate a spiral motion as opposed to a circle. So, though everything follows a curve, it also has a forward motion.
You only have to look at nature to see the spiral pattern in plants and shells.
What is the nature of time? Is it linear or not?
From wikipedia:
There is an appointed time (zman) for everything. And there is a time ('êth) for every event under heaven-
A time ('êth) to give birth, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted.
A time to kill, and a time to heal; A time to tear down, and a time to build up.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
A time to throw stones, and a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, and a time to shun embracing.
A time to search, and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep, and a time to throw away.
A time to tear apart, and a time to sew together; A time to be silent, and a time to speak.
A time to love, and a time to hate; A time for war, and a time for peace. - Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
This can be looked at in a variety of ways. For instance; "..A time to be silent, and a time to speak. " We on this forum know the reason and benefits for keeping silent internally. Also how to speak or write to each other to comunicate what we experience.
Someone involved in ceremonial magic and or astrology may look more towards propitious times to perform certain acts. As many also involed with Wicca do.
Any way you read these verses in Ecclesiastes they are true.
What level are you reading it at and do you think that is all it says? That is the problem with religion. They read at one level and think that they have an understanding of the subject written about and any other ideas about that subject must be wrong.
[edit] Linear and cyclical time
See also: Time Cycles and Wheel of time
In general, the Judaeo-Christian concept, based on the Bible, is that time is linear, with a beginning, the act of creation by God. The Christian view assumes also an end, the eschaton, expected to happen when Christ returns to earth in the Second Coming to judge the living and the dead. This will be the consummation of the world and time. St Augustine's City of God was the first developed application of this concept to world history. The Christian view is that God is uncreated and eternal so that He and the supernatural world are outside time and exist in eternity.
What is outside of time cannot be described. Either by science or religion. To communicate concepts we have only words to make use of. The Bible starts with "In the Beginning" ( the second world, the world of "creation") science starts at what is created and goes "backwards" to the "Big Bang." Both descriptions stop at the beginning of time and space and matter.
The advantage that the Bible has is that it goes beyond this in telling us how we can Experience the Reality that lies beyond this boundary. Just because something cannot be described does not mean we cannot experience it firsthand.
Ancient cultures such as Incan, Mayan, Hopi, and other Native American Tribes, plus the Babylonian, Ancient Greek, Hindu, Buddhist, Jainist, and others have a concept of a wheel of time, that regards time as cyclical and quantic consisting of repeating ages that happen to every being of the Universe between birth and extinction.
Cycles are also covered in the Bible. Spirals may be more accurate though. Even though the world spins on it's axis and revovles around the sun and the sun travels a circular path etc., when one circle or cycle is complete, nothing is where it was when the circle or cycle began. So this would necessarily dictate a spiral motion as opposed to a circle. So, though everything follows a curve, it also has a forward motion.
You only have to look at nature to see the spiral pattern in plants and shells.