12-18-2007, 12:00 AM
Hi Lightly and all,
"Consider for a moment, a man who goes to a psychiatric counselor for help with raging emotional upset within him.
The counselor's strategy is to get the man to talk about his problems. If the man can address his emotional upset, the psychic pressure of his upset will lessen.
Should he deny, or otherwise be able to suppress his emotions, the psychic pressure from those feelings will increase."
It could also be, not to say you are wrong, but another explaination is that the man is in the process of contacting or opening doors to other "influences" by his silence. Talking to himself or others will help to bring him back to normal everyday 5-sense awareness.
In this case either explaination can be true and even some of each can also be true.
Removing our definitions or boundaries of what reality is is accomplished by inner silence. Sometimes we go further than we are emotionally capable of enduring. The first impulse is to talk to bring ourselves back from a dangerous altered awareness. It is a tool. And the single most powerful tool used to help stop the world. This is according to Don Juan and I believe it to be true.
"There is a time to speak and a time to keep silent.." Ecclesiates.
"If a man speaks about his charity out in the open, the psychic pressure of this virtue will lessen. Should he suppress his charity, it will grow within him. A man will grow more charitable."
Your ideas of Psychic pressure may have some merit. I have not thought of it in this way.
There is also again another explaination. And again both may be true.
The man by his acting overtly, instead of secretly has let everyone know of his generousity. What was his intention?
Jesus tells us to give our alms in secret so that our Father will reward us openly. And likewise he says of the man who prays in front of people TO BE SEEN OF MEN has ALREADY recieved his reward. In other words, he has gotten what he wanted, attention of others to his "holiness."
There is no further reward. That sounds to me like his prayer will not be answered.
Intent is all important in these things. We can only know our own and that after much soul searching. But, like I said both your and my ideas can be true.
"In all cultures where it has existed, the entire range of human activity we think of as "magic" has been held as secret. The techniques and practices of the witch grow within "the power of silence". Talking too much can "empty your bag" so to speak."
You might be correct there.
"Many commenters on magic have indicated a real paranoia of what others might do or think if they knew the secrets of a magical organization."
That is true.
I propose here, that the real benefit of secrecy is that magic will not exist in the open. That which is kept within us unexpressed grows.
Again, I've never thought of it quite like that in regards to secrecy and magic, but it certainly is true with negative emotions, like holding grudges and forced abstinance from sexual activity. Catholic priest are a good example.
"That to which we give naming, shrinks away."
There I agree wholeheartedly. We think we know something when we name it. Doctors are a good example, as are Psychologists and pretty much all science. The practice of naming or defining something whether abstract or material seems to be a signal for the mind to shut off concerning that thing.
I think that is summed up in Genesis when God brought the animals to Adam to name, "..And whatsoever he named them, that was the name thereof.." To name is to put borders around something, to define it. What if our definition is only partial? We block ourselves from further learning.
"Bob, would you mind giving a comparison of that above to the teachings about silence in the initiatory grade of the Golden Dawn?
Why did the Golden Dawn choose to keep secrets?"
I don't know much about the organisation itself. I have read several books by it's members. Like many such organisations it went through a lot of splits and factions.
I do not hold it up as a good organisation. I would however recommend some of those books, The Mystical Qabala by Dion Fortune being, probably the best. Also such books by Israel Regardie, Macgregor Mathers and Wynn Wescott and Paul Foster Cases book on the Tarot.
True initiation come from God, not man. Ceremonies mean nothing. I was not into ceremonial magic, though I learned a lot of the principles. Msticism has more to do with disciplining yourself to use your mind. I used the Tarot cards as tools of meditation, never for divination.
I attempt to bypass the psychic realms. A lot of error can be avoided in this way. Rising on the planes, Meditating on the Source.
The initiations that I went through were for the most part when I was alone. And afterward study and meditation on qabalistic principals and Scripture helped me to realise what has happened to me. And it is still unfolding.
"Why did the Golden Dawn choose to keep secrets?"
I would imagine for the same reasons as any secret organisation. Your suggestions about insulating psychic energy may have something to do with it. And then there are the obvious reasons like ostrcising from family and society, etc.
There is a library and bookstore kind of near my home in Wheaton, IL. It is called the Theosophical Society. Back in decades past (I don't remeber when, maybe the 30's) they actually had effigies burnt on there lawn by angry neighbors.
Bob
"Consider for a moment, a man who goes to a psychiatric counselor for help with raging emotional upset within him.
The counselor's strategy is to get the man to talk about his problems. If the man can address his emotional upset, the psychic pressure of his upset will lessen.
Should he deny, or otherwise be able to suppress his emotions, the psychic pressure from those feelings will increase."
It could also be, not to say you are wrong, but another explaination is that the man is in the process of contacting or opening doors to other "influences" by his silence. Talking to himself or others will help to bring him back to normal everyday 5-sense awareness.
In this case either explaination can be true and even some of each can also be true.
Removing our definitions or boundaries of what reality is is accomplished by inner silence. Sometimes we go further than we are emotionally capable of enduring. The first impulse is to talk to bring ourselves back from a dangerous altered awareness. It is a tool. And the single most powerful tool used to help stop the world. This is according to Don Juan and I believe it to be true.
"There is a time to speak and a time to keep silent.." Ecclesiates.
"If a man speaks about his charity out in the open, the psychic pressure of this virtue will lessen. Should he suppress his charity, it will grow within him. A man will grow more charitable."
Your ideas of Psychic pressure may have some merit. I have not thought of it in this way.
There is also again another explaination. And again both may be true.
The man by his acting overtly, instead of secretly has let everyone know of his generousity. What was his intention?
Jesus tells us to give our alms in secret so that our Father will reward us openly. And likewise he says of the man who prays in front of people TO BE SEEN OF MEN has ALREADY recieved his reward. In other words, he has gotten what he wanted, attention of others to his "holiness."
There is no further reward. That sounds to me like his prayer will not be answered.
Intent is all important in these things. We can only know our own and that after much soul searching. But, like I said both your and my ideas can be true.
"In all cultures where it has existed, the entire range of human activity we think of as "magic" has been held as secret. The techniques and practices of the witch grow within "the power of silence". Talking too much can "empty your bag" so to speak."
You might be correct there.
"Many commenters on magic have indicated a real paranoia of what others might do or think if they knew the secrets of a magical organization."
That is true.
I propose here, that the real benefit of secrecy is that magic will not exist in the open. That which is kept within us unexpressed grows.
Again, I've never thought of it quite like that in regards to secrecy and magic, but it certainly is true with negative emotions, like holding grudges and forced abstinance from sexual activity. Catholic priest are a good example.
"That to which we give naming, shrinks away."
There I agree wholeheartedly. We think we know something when we name it. Doctors are a good example, as are Psychologists and pretty much all science. The practice of naming or defining something whether abstract or material seems to be a signal for the mind to shut off concerning that thing.
I think that is summed up in Genesis when God brought the animals to Adam to name, "..And whatsoever he named them, that was the name thereof.." To name is to put borders around something, to define it. What if our definition is only partial? We block ourselves from further learning.
"Bob, would you mind giving a comparison of that above to the teachings about silence in the initiatory grade of the Golden Dawn?
Why did the Golden Dawn choose to keep secrets?"
I don't know much about the organisation itself. I have read several books by it's members. Like many such organisations it went through a lot of splits and factions.
I do not hold it up as a good organisation. I would however recommend some of those books, The Mystical Qabala by Dion Fortune being, probably the best. Also such books by Israel Regardie, Macgregor Mathers and Wynn Wescott and Paul Foster Cases book on the Tarot.
True initiation come from God, not man. Ceremonies mean nothing. I was not into ceremonial magic, though I learned a lot of the principles. Msticism has more to do with disciplining yourself to use your mind. I used the Tarot cards as tools of meditation, never for divination.
I attempt to bypass the psychic realms. A lot of error can be avoided in this way. Rising on the planes, Meditating on the Source.
The initiations that I went through were for the most part when I was alone. And afterward study and meditation on qabalistic principals and Scripture helped me to realise what has happened to me. And it is still unfolding.
"Why did the Golden Dawn choose to keep secrets?"
I would imagine for the same reasons as any secret organisation. Your suggestions about insulating psychic energy may have something to do with it. And then there are the obvious reasons like ostrcising from family and society, etc.
There is a library and bookstore kind of near my home in Wheaton, IL. It is called the Theosophical Society. Back in decades past (I don't remeber when, maybe the 30's) they actually had effigies burnt on there lawn by angry neighbors.
Bob