01-07-2008, 12:00 AM
"There's also the idea that you might crystalize your own thinking,.."
I try not to.
I have noticed and written on parallels in the Bible, Qabala and Don Juan's system because i've experienced a few things because of following these systems, and noticed quite a few similarities in these teachings. So, I've written on them here. But, try speaking on these things in a Christian church and you are asking for trouble. As far as seeing the egg/oval I have only experienced it a handful of times. I know there is validity to it but could not hope to describe it accurately. Seeing is not my gift. Neither is dreaming.
"I imagine you would have some very interesting ideas.
There's also the idea that you might crystalize your own thinking, only to find parallels and analogs with the classic descriptions."
It seems to me that the way it works, with me anyway, is that you make yourself open to spirit, you have an experience, and then only later do you recognise a description of a similar experience. This seems especially so with the Bible and Qabala.
It goes back to the secrecy thing and reasons for it. These books tell you how to live so that you will believe in something not readily available to normal waking consciousness. Then they teach you how to think so as not to block yourself. The description are given couched in symbols to both awaken and exercise another part of your mind and to not be so obvious that you make it up and kid yourself into thinking you have had this experience when in fact you have merely talked yourself into believing you have.
The coat of many colors is a good example. Before I had this experience, I would never had guessed that it was a description of a spiritual experience. After having had the experience there was no way that I could deny that it was a description of the experience that I had.
"...only to find parallels and analogs with the classic descriptions."
Classical descriptions, and maybe I'm not understanding it as you mean it, are largely based on paintings done hundreds of years after the fact by people who could not see or by movies made in Hollywood, also by people who could not see.
I will give you an analogy.
In a psychic developement class that I attended we would use the excercise of "gazing" at the flame of a candle in a dimly lit room. Some people in the class could see the aura right off. Some, it took some practice before they could see it. Some never did see it. All who saw the "aura" around the flame saw it as a perfectly round globe shape. Some saw colors, some did not.
Some months after beginning that class, I saw a still life painting of a candle on a table in a dimly lit room. The "aura" around the flame on the candle was multi- colored like a dim rainbow, and perfectly round.
I also saw a very similar painting by another artist who had the same style of still life. The only difference between the two paintings was that the first painting had a perfectly round globe-shaped aura around the flame. But the second had a flame-shaped aura around the flame.
My conclusion is that the second artist could not see the aura around the flame, but only painted what he thought it should look like or what he had inaccurately remembered seeing in another painting.
We get the same thing going on with paintings from the renaissance period and, of course, Hollywood.
Those people did not experience what they depicted.
They read that cloven tongues of flame fell on the disciples at Pentacost. They assumed that meant that one flame with three points upon it hovered over each head, so that is what they painted. Same thing happened with the halo/aura thing on statues. It looks as if someone nailed a fancy dinner plate to the back of someones head.
Small things maybe, but you would be amazed how those type of things warp the expectations of people.
If the artists and movie makers had had any real experiences they would have created much more interesting paintings and movies.
I'm not complaining though. When you experience something described in Scripture and it matches that description, and yet at the same time, does not in anyway match what your preconceived notions were based on these paintings and movies, it is just one more affirmation that what you are seeing or experiencing is true. You could not possibly have imagined it.
"It has not entered into the mind and hearts of man what God has in store for his children."
I think that says it all.
Bob
I try not to.
I have noticed and written on parallels in the Bible, Qabala and Don Juan's system because i've experienced a few things because of following these systems, and noticed quite a few similarities in these teachings. So, I've written on them here. But, try speaking on these things in a Christian church and you are asking for trouble. As far as seeing the egg/oval I have only experienced it a handful of times. I know there is validity to it but could not hope to describe it accurately. Seeing is not my gift. Neither is dreaming.
"I imagine you would have some very interesting ideas.
There's also the idea that you might crystalize your own thinking, only to find parallels and analogs with the classic descriptions."
It seems to me that the way it works, with me anyway, is that you make yourself open to spirit, you have an experience, and then only later do you recognise a description of a similar experience. This seems especially so with the Bible and Qabala.
It goes back to the secrecy thing and reasons for it. These books tell you how to live so that you will believe in something not readily available to normal waking consciousness. Then they teach you how to think so as not to block yourself. The description are given couched in symbols to both awaken and exercise another part of your mind and to not be so obvious that you make it up and kid yourself into thinking you have had this experience when in fact you have merely talked yourself into believing you have.
The coat of many colors is a good example. Before I had this experience, I would never had guessed that it was a description of a spiritual experience. After having had the experience there was no way that I could deny that it was a description of the experience that I had.
"...only to find parallels and analogs with the classic descriptions."
Classical descriptions, and maybe I'm not understanding it as you mean it, are largely based on paintings done hundreds of years after the fact by people who could not see or by movies made in Hollywood, also by people who could not see.
I will give you an analogy.
In a psychic developement class that I attended we would use the excercise of "gazing" at the flame of a candle in a dimly lit room. Some people in the class could see the aura right off. Some, it took some practice before they could see it. Some never did see it. All who saw the "aura" around the flame saw it as a perfectly round globe shape. Some saw colors, some did not.
Some months after beginning that class, I saw a still life painting of a candle on a table in a dimly lit room. The "aura" around the flame on the candle was multi- colored like a dim rainbow, and perfectly round.
I also saw a very similar painting by another artist who had the same style of still life. The only difference between the two paintings was that the first painting had a perfectly round globe-shaped aura around the flame. But the second had a flame-shaped aura around the flame.
My conclusion is that the second artist could not see the aura around the flame, but only painted what he thought it should look like or what he had inaccurately remembered seeing in another painting.
We get the same thing going on with paintings from the renaissance period and, of course, Hollywood.
Those people did not experience what they depicted.
They read that cloven tongues of flame fell on the disciples at Pentacost. They assumed that meant that one flame with three points upon it hovered over each head, so that is what they painted. Same thing happened with the halo/aura thing on statues. It looks as if someone nailed a fancy dinner plate to the back of someones head.
Small things maybe, but you would be amazed how those type of things warp the expectations of people.
If the artists and movie makers had had any real experiences they would have created much more interesting paintings and movies.
I'm not complaining though. When you experience something described in Scripture and it matches that description, and yet at the same time, does not in anyway match what your preconceived notions were based on these paintings and movies, it is just one more affirmation that what you are seeing or experiencing is true. You could not possibly have imagined it.
"It has not entered into the mind and hearts of man what God has in store for his children."
I think that says it all.
Bob