04-24-2011, 12:00 AM
lex icon wrote:
I would say it enables us to experience either second or third attention. Which we experience is dependent upon what we believe and/or what we have experienced previously. Bob
DJ seems to be saying that 3rd attention depends on the wings of perception unfolding after the bubble of perception is cracked and has little if anything to do with belief.
Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to accept what DJ is saying about the 2 views being descriptions and are really suggesting that if they are descriptions as DJ says then the way past the descriptions is to stop the internal dialogue.
DJ said it was the most powerful or important thing he had taught Carlos. It was also taught by my own teacher. By practicing "Body Awareness" (being able to sit for hours completely comfortable and not move a muscle) and then later, "Mind Awareness" (being able to sit for hours without a thought or only one thought), was his method of teaching meditation. These were taught as the foundation of meditation."Be still and know that I am God" was quoted over an over.
But if that is what you mean (don’t want to put words in your mouth) we must remember that DJ taught CC about stopping the internal dialogue, which CC did on many occasions, long before Genaro cracked his bubble of perception.
The method used to see beyond either description. It is a method. Mechanics. If the door is opened you become aware of another description whether you understand it or not.Stopping the internal dialog is a method that leads to the experience of stopping the world. Carlos got glymses of somethings outside of the first attention all along the way. He thought he had stopped the world.He asked DJ about this once and DJ's answer was that stopping the world was something that came a little at a time and then all at once.It takes time. For me, I practiced stopping the internal dialog for over two years every chance I got. When driving walking or anything else I was doing. If I found myself talking inside I would stop. I was pretty much a hermit. I still do that. If I don't have to talk, I try not to.
Then reading what you said;
When I stopped the world I was in an unbelieveably chaotic state for several weeks. Living in two worlds at once, (the first and second attentions) and each day it would be a completely different experience.After that I went through an apprenticeship with a Christian Qabalist and had some Spirtual experiences. Some during meditations and some during waking awareness. Bob
You associate this with stopping the world. I associate it with cracking the bubble. All I can say is I totally identify with the living in two “worlds” at once part. That was my experience too. It was acute and continuous for many months before I became accustomed to it.
This is, I believe, the story of the flood. Lifted high above the world of ordinary men, surrounded by animals, the reaffirmations too much to deal with. The third eye (window in the top of the Ark) is opened and a raven is let loose. (it is a negative experience) It is only later that the dove is let loose and returns. This is our description either negative or positive elements reflecting back to us. Our world view.After forty days and nights (stability reached) we are deposited on a mountain top. We are back on earth but with a new perspective. It is a new earth because it will never be the same to us again.It is the Baptism of water. The first initiation.
What I find very interesting though is DJ knows how to do this to another person! I do not. I am not really sure just how it happened to me. I was aware of my preparation though I was not seeking “bubble cracking” lol.
I also find it interesting. I think the preparation was all I could do at that time lacking any real guide. I was trying to stop the world. It was the goal as far as I was concerned. But to understand what it was and how all encompassing it was, I had no idea and could not have had any idea before it happened. It was all I could do to get back to some semblance of normalcy. I knew I would do it again but also that I needed some kind of philosophy and or guide and teacher in order to survive it.
DJ mentions “regrouping the elements” of the tonal island. I think this is very important. Has anyone considered what are the elements of the tonal that need regrouping (according to DJ) and how are they rallied on the side of reason?I think the elements are our world view which would be determined by our philosophy. What we believe is true. If that philosophy was put together by someone who had only experienced the first or second attention, it is no guide at all. Because then we would be stuck in the second attention where DJ said he would not like to be stuck.
I would say it enables us to experience either second or third attention. Which we experience is dependent upon what we believe and/or what we have experienced previously. Bob
DJ seems to be saying that 3rd attention depends on the wings of perception unfolding after the bubble of perception is cracked and has little if anything to do with belief.
Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to accept what DJ is saying about the 2 views being descriptions and are really suggesting that if they are descriptions as DJ says then the way past the descriptions is to stop the internal dialogue.
DJ said it was the most powerful or important thing he had taught Carlos. It was also taught by my own teacher. By practicing "Body Awareness" (being able to sit for hours completely comfortable and not move a muscle) and then later, "Mind Awareness" (being able to sit for hours without a thought or only one thought), was his method of teaching meditation. These were taught as the foundation of meditation."Be still and know that I am God" was quoted over an over.
But if that is what you mean (don’t want to put words in your mouth) we must remember that DJ taught CC about stopping the internal dialogue, which CC did on many occasions, long before Genaro cracked his bubble of perception.
The method used to see beyond either description. It is a method. Mechanics. If the door is opened you become aware of another description whether you understand it or not.Stopping the internal dialog is a method that leads to the experience of stopping the world. Carlos got glymses of somethings outside of the first attention all along the way. He thought he had stopped the world.He asked DJ about this once and DJ's answer was that stopping the world was something that came a little at a time and then all at once.It takes time. For me, I practiced stopping the internal dialog for over two years every chance I got. When driving walking or anything else I was doing. If I found myself talking inside I would stop. I was pretty much a hermit. I still do that. If I don't have to talk, I try not to.
Then reading what you said;
When I stopped the world I was in an unbelieveably chaotic state for several weeks. Living in two worlds at once, (the first and second attentions) and each day it would be a completely different experience.After that I went through an apprenticeship with a Christian Qabalist and had some Spirtual experiences. Some during meditations and some during waking awareness. Bob
You associate this with stopping the world. I associate it with cracking the bubble. All I can say is I totally identify with the living in two “worlds” at once part. That was my experience too. It was acute and continuous for many months before I became accustomed to it.
This is, I believe, the story of the flood. Lifted high above the world of ordinary men, surrounded by animals, the reaffirmations too much to deal with. The third eye (window in the top of the Ark) is opened and a raven is let loose. (it is a negative experience) It is only later that the dove is let loose and returns. This is our description either negative or positive elements reflecting back to us. Our world view.After forty days and nights (stability reached) we are deposited on a mountain top. We are back on earth but with a new perspective. It is a new earth because it will never be the same to us again.It is the Baptism of water. The first initiation.
What I find very interesting though is DJ knows how to do this to another person! I do not. I am not really sure just how it happened to me. I was aware of my preparation though I was not seeking “bubble cracking” lol.
I also find it interesting. I think the preparation was all I could do at that time lacking any real guide. I was trying to stop the world. It was the goal as far as I was concerned. But to understand what it was and how all encompassing it was, I had no idea and could not have had any idea before it happened. It was all I could do to get back to some semblance of normalcy. I knew I would do it again but also that I needed some kind of philosophy and or guide and teacher in order to survive it.
DJ mentions “regrouping the elements” of the tonal island. I think this is very important. Has anyone considered what are the elements of the tonal that need regrouping (according to DJ) and how are they rallied on the side of reason?I think the elements are our world view which would be determined by our philosophy. What we believe is true. If that philosophy was put together by someone who had only experienced the first or second attention, it is no guide at all. Because then we would be stuck in the second attention where DJ said he would not like to be stuck.