04-24-2011, 12:00 AM
lex icon wrote:
This “pitting” of the two views against each. I see it more of DJ pitting the sorcerer’s view against the view of the average man.
I agree that was his strategy. It never was the goal for CC to become a sorcerer. He was leading him to become a man of knowledge. But, at the same time maybe he was not. Carlos went on to write books that influenced many people. Maybe the whole CC legacy was for those who would read the books and had nothing at all to do with what would happen to Carlos.
Power or the Spirit or the nagual directed DJ to take Carlos on as an apprentice. What was the purpose of that? A clown introducing a clown, I believe is how DJ put it. So the first of the books, his doctoral disertation, was published by other clowns in order for it to become widely read.Maybe it was all done for the benefit of Enchantra, or Lex or Lone Wolf.
It is not that he is advocating the sorcerer’s view, as I am sure Carlos and many of us here thought. Again this is a didactic device of DJ’s. Carlos was so fixed in the view of an average man. DJ had tried blasting him with power plants to try and dislodge him but Carlos proved very resilient. No the sorcerer’s view was just another tool that DJ used to loosen Carlos’s conviction concerning the view of the world, part of a strategy that lasted 14 years!
No, he was not advocating the sorcerer's worldview at all. Carlos was juat as hard to move out of the sorcerer's worldview as he was to move out of the ordinary man's view. I think he never "Got it." But at least he wrote it down so that others could.
The “trick” was that Carlos thought he was becoming a sorcerer! I think we have all been tricked by DJ in this regard. We too thought he was teaching Carlos how to become a sorcerer and I dare say that some of us thought his teachings were teaching us how to do the same. This could be a tough pill to swallow.
Depends on what you mean by a sorcerer's view and tricked. He had to experience the second attention.Early on in the books DJ said that a sorcerer was someone who had stopped the world. That was and is his definition of Sorcerer. Later he said that bringing Carlos into this strange environment with all of it's cultural aspects and out in the strange environment of the desert and the witches, etc., was to shake up his world.
If a person has not stopped the world, they have not been immersed in what DJ called the "sorcerer's world." Reaffirmations and the awareness of inorganic beings, and all kinds of other phenomena happen equally within any cultural or subcultural background.
It is the experience itself, stripped of all the cultural accoutrements, that we are to hold up against the experience of first attention.To hold something against something else we are looking for similarities and or differences.
Here are some differences;
In the first attention, coincidences (two things happening at exactly the same time or place) are "accidental".In the second attention coincidences are meaningful.In the first attention people are just people.In the second attention people are something else. (See Genero's description of his journey to Ixtlan)
Here are some similarities; The first attention can be a very predatory environment and it is best to know what places to avoid and what places to seek.Second attention is the same.The awakening to the second attention from the first attention comes a little at a time,..and then all at once.The awakening from the second attention to the third is the same.
This “pitting” of the two views against each. I see it more of DJ pitting the sorcerer’s view against the view of the average man.
I agree that was his strategy. It never was the goal for CC to become a sorcerer. He was leading him to become a man of knowledge. But, at the same time maybe he was not. Carlos went on to write books that influenced many people. Maybe the whole CC legacy was for those who would read the books and had nothing at all to do with what would happen to Carlos.
Power or the Spirit or the nagual directed DJ to take Carlos on as an apprentice. What was the purpose of that? A clown introducing a clown, I believe is how DJ put it. So the first of the books, his doctoral disertation, was published by other clowns in order for it to become widely read.Maybe it was all done for the benefit of Enchantra, or Lex or Lone Wolf.
It is not that he is advocating the sorcerer’s view, as I am sure Carlos and many of us here thought. Again this is a didactic device of DJ’s. Carlos was so fixed in the view of an average man. DJ had tried blasting him with power plants to try and dislodge him but Carlos proved very resilient. No the sorcerer’s view was just another tool that DJ used to loosen Carlos’s conviction concerning the view of the world, part of a strategy that lasted 14 years!
No, he was not advocating the sorcerer's worldview at all. Carlos was juat as hard to move out of the sorcerer's worldview as he was to move out of the ordinary man's view. I think he never "Got it." But at least he wrote it down so that others could.
The “trick” was that Carlos thought he was becoming a sorcerer! I think we have all been tricked by DJ in this regard. We too thought he was teaching Carlos how to become a sorcerer and I dare say that some of us thought his teachings were teaching us how to do the same. This could be a tough pill to swallow.
Depends on what you mean by a sorcerer's view and tricked. He had to experience the second attention.Early on in the books DJ said that a sorcerer was someone who had stopped the world. That was and is his definition of Sorcerer. Later he said that bringing Carlos into this strange environment with all of it's cultural aspects and out in the strange environment of the desert and the witches, etc., was to shake up his world.
If a person has not stopped the world, they have not been immersed in what DJ called the "sorcerer's world." Reaffirmations and the awareness of inorganic beings, and all kinds of other phenomena happen equally within any cultural or subcultural background.
It is the experience itself, stripped of all the cultural accoutrements, that we are to hold up against the experience of first attention.To hold something against something else we are looking for similarities and or differences.
Here are some differences;
In the first attention, coincidences (two things happening at exactly the same time or place) are "accidental".In the second attention coincidences are meaningful.In the first attention people are just people.In the second attention people are something else. (See Genero's description of his journey to Ixtlan)
Here are some similarities; The first attention can be a very predatory environment and it is best to know what places to avoid and what places to seek.Second attention is the same.The awakening to the second attention from the first attention comes a little at a time,..and then all at once.The awakening from the second attention to the third is the same.