04-26-2011, 12:00 AM
lex icon wrote:
Yes, but it is you who is equating your “stopping the world” and what that means to “cracking the bubble of perception”. I am not.
You misunderstand me. I think the opening of the bubble of perception came much later than stopping the world. I don't remember Carlos' giving a description of his stopping the world experience other than mentioning he was in a very distraught condition and didn't go to see Don Juan for a long period of time. I cannot even say which book that was, but that was my conclusion at the time I read it.I look at my experience of stopping the world because of Don Juan's description. "It comes a little at a time and all at once."
I think DJ uses the term sorcerer loosely much as he does with the term Eagle. At some point it became convenient to say sorcerer, yet all along it was part of his strategy. I have no doubts that CC experienced 2nd attention and experienced it very profoundly. And because his wings of perception unfolded 3rd attention too!
I agree, he used his terms in various ways at various times. That is what I meant when I said, It depends what you meant by the term sorcerer. I also believe he experienced the second attention many times. And third also, but I have my doubts about a permanent change in him.
What I think CC means by sorcerers' view, is the world of sorcery that DJ introduced him to, a world that seems preposterous to an average man.
So, I'll take that to mean you are speaking of both the cultural first attention aspects and the aspects dealing with those elements not available to average men and women.
Yes, but it is you who is equating your “stopping the world” and what that means to “cracking the bubble of perception”. I am not.
You misunderstand me. I think the opening of the bubble of perception came much later than stopping the world. I don't remember Carlos' giving a description of his stopping the world experience other than mentioning he was in a very distraught condition and didn't go to see Don Juan for a long period of time. I cannot even say which book that was, but that was my conclusion at the time I read it.I look at my experience of stopping the world because of Don Juan's description. "It comes a little at a time and all at once."
I think DJ uses the term sorcerer loosely much as he does with the term Eagle. At some point it became convenient to say sorcerer, yet all along it was part of his strategy. I have no doubts that CC experienced 2nd attention and experienced it very profoundly. And because his wings of perception unfolded 3rd attention too!
I agree, he used his terms in various ways at various times. That is what I meant when I said, It depends what you meant by the term sorcerer. I also believe he experienced the second attention many times. And third also, but I have my doubts about a permanent change in him.
What I think CC means by sorcerers' view, is the world of sorcery that DJ introduced him to, a world that seems preposterous to an average man.
So, I'll take that to mean you are speaking of both the cultural first attention aspects and the aspects dealing with those elements not available to average men and women.