04-29-2011, 12:00 AM
lex icon wrote:
I would say it enables us to experience either second or third attention. Which we experience is dependent upon what we believe and/or what we have experienced previously. Bob
DJ seems to be saying that 3rd attention depends on the wings of perception unfolding after the bubble of perception is cracked and has little if anything to do with belief.
If, in our "philosophy", we do not have an explanation that says there is something beyond the second attention we will not experience the third. That is my point here.If you believe there is an all encompasing and incomprehensible Force that sustains all of the worlds and that has no interest in us whatsoever, then that is what you will experience.If, on the other hand, you believe this Incomprehensible Something has orchestrated your life and brought you to this point in order to reveal to you what you are experiencing, then that is what you will experience.
Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to accept what DJ is saying about the 2 views being descriptions and are really suggesting that if they are descriptions as DJ says then the way past the descriptions is to stop the internal dialogue.
Yes, I accept the idea of there being two descriptions. I do not accept that they are merely illusion.
I believe they are orchestrated by a higher Power that has our best interests in mind. In a word, both descriptions are allegorical in nature. In other words they teach us."Be still and know that I am God," is basically saying that silence is the technique to experiencing the third attention.
But if that is what you mean (don’t want to put words in your mouth) we must remember that DJ taught CC about stopping the internal dialogue, which CC did on many occasions, long before Genaro cracked his bubble of perception.
Here is another example of the term used in different ways. Most times he used the term to indicate the technique. A few times he used the term to indicate the complete collapse of our world view, which would be the culmination or outcome of making use of that technique.
Then reading what you said;
When I stopped the world I was in an unbelieveably chaotic state for several weeks. Living in two worlds at once, (the first and second attentions) and each day it would be a completely different experience.After that I went through an apprenticeship with a Christian Qabalist and had some Spirtual experiences. Some during meditations and some during waking awareness. BobYou associate this with stopping the world. I associate it with cracking the bubble. All I can say is I totally identify with the living in two “worlds” at once part. That was my experience too. It was acute and continuous for many months before I became accustomed to it.
This, I believe is the point that Don Juan said comes in every warrior's life when he has to decide whether or not to go on. He backs off and rightfully so, as Don Juan puts it. Though it did not seem the same thing as you and I experienced, Carlos had a choice to make. Don Juan brought in a worthy opponent to give Carlos a reason to stay. To help Don Juan.I did not become accustomed to it. I backed off knowing I could not survive it and to get my "feet on the ground." I also knew that I was in no way finished. But I was certain I needed something or someone to guide me through this maze.But "through the maze is wrong, too. It needed to be bypassed or made sense of. I ended up there several times after this first time. At least one time it was an even more negative an experience. But then there are beings that want to stop you whenever you are making progress. Attacks become evidence that you are making progress. And you learn how to bypass this experience with experience.What I find very interesting though is DJ knows how to do this to another person! I do not. I am not really sure just how it happened to me. I was aware of my preparation though I was not seeking “bubble cracking” lol.
Sometimes you are pulled up into it, sometimes it falls on you, sometimes you are visited and sometimes you just know things you didn't before. The preparation leaves you open to it and it seems to happen in an instant.But without that preparation we probably would not have the experience.DJ mentions “regrouping the elements” of the tonal island. I think this is very important. Has anyone considered what are the elements of the tonal that need regrouping (according to DJ) and how are they rallied on the side of reason?
All part of that preparation. The way of the warrior, the sermon on the mount. "Not doing" what comes naturally concerning the ways in which we relate to the situations life presents to us. Re-evaluating what is of importance to us and changing these things.
I would say it enables us to experience either second or third attention. Which we experience is dependent upon what we believe and/or what we have experienced previously. Bob
DJ seems to be saying that 3rd attention depends on the wings of perception unfolding after the bubble of perception is cracked and has little if anything to do with belief.
If, in our "philosophy", we do not have an explanation that says there is something beyond the second attention we will not experience the third. That is my point here.If you believe there is an all encompasing and incomprehensible Force that sustains all of the worlds and that has no interest in us whatsoever, then that is what you will experience.If, on the other hand, you believe this Incomprehensible Something has orchestrated your life and brought you to this point in order to reveal to you what you are experiencing, then that is what you will experience.
Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to accept what DJ is saying about the 2 views being descriptions and are really suggesting that if they are descriptions as DJ says then the way past the descriptions is to stop the internal dialogue.
Yes, I accept the idea of there being two descriptions. I do not accept that they are merely illusion.
I believe they are orchestrated by a higher Power that has our best interests in mind. In a word, both descriptions are allegorical in nature. In other words they teach us."Be still and know that I am God," is basically saying that silence is the technique to experiencing the third attention.
But if that is what you mean (don’t want to put words in your mouth) we must remember that DJ taught CC about stopping the internal dialogue, which CC did on many occasions, long before Genaro cracked his bubble of perception.
Here is another example of the term used in different ways. Most times he used the term to indicate the technique. A few times he used the term to indicate the complete collapse of our world view, which would be the culmination or outcome of making use of that technique.
Then reading what you said;
When I stopped the world I was in an unbelieveably chaotic state for several weeks. Living in two worlds at once, (the first and second attentions) and each day it would be a completely different experience.After that I went through an apprenticeship with a Christian Qabalist and had some Spirtual experiences. Some during meditations and some during waking awareness. BobYou associate this with stopping the world. I associate it with cracking the bubble. All I can say is I totally identify with the living in two “worlds” at once part. That was my experience too. It was acute and continuous for many months before I became accustomed to it.
This, I believe is the point that Don Juan said comes in every warrior's life when he has to decide whether or not to go on. He backs off and rightfully so, as Don Juan puts it. Though it did not seem the same thing as you and I experienced, Carlos had a choice to make. Don Juan brought in a worthy opponent to give Carlos a reason to stay. To help Don Juan.I did not become accustomed to it. I backed off knowing I could not survive it and to get my "feet on the ground." I also knew that I was in no way finished. But I was certain I needed something or someone to guide me through this maze.But "through the maze is wrong, too. It needed to be bypassed or made sense of. I ended up there several times after this first time. At least one time it was an even more negative an experience. But then there are beings that want to stop you whenever you are making progress. Attacks become evidence that you are making progress. And you learn how to bypass this experience with experience.What I find very interesting though is DJ knows how to do this to another person! I do not. I am not really sure just how it happened to me. I was aware of my preparation though I was not seeking “bubble cracking” lol.
Sometimes you are pulled up into it, sometimes it falls on you, sometimes you are visited and sometimes you just know things you didn't before. The preparation leaves you open to it and it seems to happen in an instant.But without that preparation we probably would not have the experience.DJ mentions “regrouping the elements” of the tonal island. I think this is very important. Has anyone considered what are the elements of the tonal that need regrouping (according to DJ) and how are they rallied on the side of reason?
All part of that preparation. The way of the warrior, the sermon on the mount. "Not doing" what comes naturally concerning the ways in which we relate to the situations life presents to us. Re-evaluating what is of importance to us and changing these things.