05-16-2011, 12:00 AM
lex icon wrote:
Good stuff Bob!
If, in our "philosophy", we do not have an explanation that says there is something beyond the second attention we will not experience the third. Bob
That certainly seems to be the case with CC. However here is an example contrary to this. Once I had gone through ALL the stages outlined by St John of The Cross something happened to me that was outside of the philosophy and tradition I was associated with. In that tradition mystical union is it. There was the goal of christian mysticism. After living this union and living it deeply embedded in life in this world there was a further movement that I knew nothing of at that time and when it happened to me it took me years to get accustomed to it. It took me just a couple of years to even find out what was happening to me.
The experience I refer to is the no-self experience associated with Buddhism. Now granted I was barely aware of the Buddhists referring to no-self but at that time I did not think it was an actual experience. I just thought of it as one of their tenets like, “from the beginning no thing”, you know their beliefs. I did not think of it as something available as experience. But that’s the way it usually goes for me. I experience these states often without knowing what they are and then my intellect plays catch up. I think DJ might see this as corroborating earlier movements and regaining or retracing that movement later more knowingly.
It is unusual for me to know about a state before hand and then actively pursue it. After I went through the “night or the senses” that St John refers to, and at that time I did not know what it was or that there was such a thing but later was able to read about it and find corroboration for what I had just gone through. It was then while reading about this night of the senses St John then referred to the next stage, the stage, “night of the spirit”. Having been totally unprepared for the night of the senses, I made every effort to avail myself before hand with everything ST John had to say about the night of the spirit. I even went as far as seeking advice about this from the monks at a monastery I frequented, I assumed they knew and could guide me. It turned out they did not really know about this and viewed me as rather desperate concerning this. IT turned out that the actual experience of the night of the spirit was quite unlike what I was reading, it was way more intense, however I did know that I was deep “in it” and did not try to get out of it as I had done previously with the night of the senses.
I hesitate to bring this up because the terms that St John uses are so unfamiliar outside of that tradition and I do not wish to direct people in that direction. I offer this only as an example of knowing what may lie ahead and not knowing what lies ahead but experiencing it anyway.Lex,
When you hesitate to bring this up because the terms that St. John uses are so unfamiliar outside of that tradition. And staying outside the convention of who you are and not who you thought you to be or do and finally knowing there is no special enity or anybody inside the body making things happen. Things are happening anyway. There is freedom in this. God showed you St. John of the Cross way so you could experience that freedom within and the freedom without. The freedom of the delusion of "me".
Good stuff Bob!
If, in our "philosophy", we do not have an explanation that says there is something beyond the second attention we will not experience the third. Bob
That certainly seems to be the case with CC. However here is an example contrary to this. Once I had gone through ALL the stages outlined by St John of The Cross something happened to me that was outside of the philosophy and tradition I was associated with. In that tradition mystical union is it. There was the goal of christian mysticism. After living this union and living it deeply embedded in life in this world there was a further movement that I knew nothing of at that time and when it happened to me it took me years to get accustomed to it. It took me just a couple of years to even find out what was happening to me.
The experience I refer to is the no-self experience associated with Buddhism. Now granted I was barely aware of the Buddhists referring to no-self but at that time I did not think it was an actual experience. I just thought of it as one of their tenets like, “from the beginning no thing”, you know their beliefs. I did not think of it as something available as experience. But that’s the way it usually goes for me. I experience these states often without knowing what they are and then my intellect plays catch up. I think DJ might see this as corroborating earlier movements and regaining or retracing that movement later more knowingly.
It is unusual for me to know about a state before hand and then actively pursue it. After I went through the “night or the senses” that St John refers to, and at that time I did not know what it was or that there was such a thing but later was able to read about it and find corroboration for what I had just gone through. It was then while reading about this night of the senses St John then referred to the next stage, the stage, “night of the spirit”. Having been totally unprepared for the night of the senses, I made every effort to avail myself before hand with everything ST John had to say about the night of the spirit. I even went as far as seeking advice about this from the monks at a monastery I frequented, I assumed they knew and could guide me. It turned out they did not really know about this and viewed me as rather desperate concerning this. IT turned out that the actual experience of the night of the spirit was quite unlike what I was reading, it was way more intense, however I did know that I was deep “in it” and did not try to get out of it as I had done previously with the night of the senses.
I hesitate to bring this up because the terms that St John uses are so unfamiliar outside of that tradition and I do not wish to direct people in that direction. I offer this only as an example of knowing what may lie ahead and not knowing what lies ahead but experiencing it anyway.Lex,
When you hesitate to bring this up because the terms that St. John uses are so unfamiliar outside of that tradition. And staying outside the convention of who you are and not who you thought you to be or do and finally knowing there is no special enity or anybody inside the body making things happen. Things are happening anyway. There is freedom in this. God showed you St. John of the Cross way so you could experience that freedom within and the freedom without. The freedom of the delusion of "me".