06-08-2011, 12:01 AM
When Lex introduced the topic of the Sorcerer’s Explanation I was not inclined to respond because I felt Lex was asking for an explanation via the words of CC and DJ. Lex, it is your bent to try to grasp these concepts through CC’s works---you explore his works as though they are gospel, as though they are prima facie tools with which to explore the journey. Jessicar
Jessicar you have neither understood me or DJ. I certainly do not explore CC’s works as though they were gospel and anyone familiar with my work in these forums would know that. In fact I restrain myself most of the time because of the nature of forums such as this. Sorcery and nagualism are not my chief concern. However what I have done in regards to CC and DJ and their words is try to understand them from their point of view and where ever possible shed light on anything I find. I have found DJ’s words multi layered and have personally gone through an evolution in my understanding of HIS work over the years. Perhaps you are not that interested in his work and that’s ok I understand.
Staring at the Sorcerer’s Explanation as a means of understanding it is a trap---and yet, it isn’t----and that’s the mystery, the nagual. Jessicar
We, certainly not me, is NOT starting at the Sorcerer’s Explanation. I first came across it years ago and have just recently dusted it off. I know for a fact that many here have been practicing these teachings to the best of their ability some for years, so they are not starting at this either. Ironic because DJ wanted to start with the explanation with CC but Genaro said No.
We need to allow ourselves to enter fully into the moment in which all explanation becomes moot. Jessicar
You might have personally moved beyond the Sorcerer’s Explanation but many haven’t. The sorcerer’s explanation is for sorcerer’s or those that thought they were learning sorcery. I think they deserve an explanation after years of investment. It might be moot for you but the explanation itself is not. It is still pertinent and helpful, and I might add brilliant! You might just want to inquire for the sake of your own understanding of DJ (if you have any interest that is), why DJ thought an explanation of this sought was important. You might not agree with him but just try to see where he is coming from before you dismiss him.
For me, the Sorcerer’s Explanation is the Gateless Gate. Only when looking back can we see that there is no gate---there is no Sorcerer’s Explanation---- to be given!!!!! Jessicar
I am familiar with the Gateless Gate and what it means. I would not equate it here. (Cracking the bubble of perception would be more aligned with that not the explanation). Even when we move beyond the sorcerer’s explanation it remains. When I look back I still see the Sorcerer’s Explanation and its worth. DJ himself said without adequate preparation the Sorcerer’s Explanation would have no effect.
What I’m offering is the reality that there is no explanation once you’ve walked through the gate---it’s a somersault of thought into the inconceivable and you only get there when you get there. Jessicar
Again not everyone is there Jessicar. And this little gem of DJ’s may appear worthless in your eyes, but why decry what you don’t understand or simply have no use for. I mean that’s like Buddha saying I have achieved enlightenment and really that’s all that matters so abandon everything else along the path that may help one along because ultimately it just doesn’t matter.
What I’m offering is the reality that there is no explanation once you’ve walked through the gate Jessicar
There it is ONCE YOU"VE WALKED THROUGH THE GATE, But you wish to take away the gate (the sorcerer's explanation in your equation) before people have had a chance to walk through it.
Jessicar you have neither understood me or DJ. I certainly do not explore CC’s works as though they were gospel and anyone familiar with my work in these forums would know that. In fact I restrain myself most of the time because of the nature of forums such as this. Sorcery and nagualism are not my chief concern. However what I have done in regards to CC and DJ and their words is try to understand them from their point of view and where ever possible shed light on anything I find. I have found DJ’s words multi layered and have personally gone through an evolution in my understanding of HIS work over the years. Perhaps you are not that interested in his work and that’s ok I understand.
Staring at the Sorcerer’s Explanation as a means of understanding it is a trap---and yet, it isn’t----and that’s the mystery, the nagual. Jessicar
We, certainly not me, is NOT starting at the Sorcerer’s Explanation. I first came across it years ago and have just recently dusted it off. I know for a fact that many here have been practicing these teachings to the best of their ability some for years, so they are not starting at this either. Ironic because DJ wanted to start with the explanation with CC but Genaro said No.
We need to allow ourselves to enter fully into the moment in which all explanation becomes moot. Jessicar
You might have personally moved beyond the Sorcerer’s Explanation but many haven’t. The sorcerer’s explanation is for sorcerer’s or those that thought they were learning sorcery. I think they deserve an explanation after years of investment. It might be moot for you but the explanation itself is not. It is still pertinent and helpful, and I might add brilliant! You might just want to inquire for the sake of your own understanding of DJ (if you have any interest that is), why DJ thought an explanation of this sought was important. You might not agree with him but just try to see where he is coming from before you dismiss him.
For me, the Sorcerer’s Explanation is the Gateless Gate. Only when looking back can we see that there is no gate---there is no Sorcerer’s Explanation---- to be given!!!!! Jessicar
I am familiar with the Gateless Gate and what it means. I would not equate it here. (Cracking the bubble of perception would be more aligned with that not the explanation). Even when we move beyond the sorcerer’s explanation it remains. When I look back I still see the Sorcerer’s Explanation and its worth. DJ himself said without adequate preparation the Sorcerer’s Explanation would have no effect.
What I’m offering is the reality that there is no explanation once you’ve walked through the gate---it’s a somersault of thought into the inconceivable and you only get there when you get there. Jessicar
Again not everyone is there Jessicar. And this little gem of DJ’s may appear worthless in your eyes, but why decry what you don’t understand or simply have no use for. I mean that’s like Buddha saying I have achieved enlightenment and really that’s all that matters so abandon everything else along the path that may help one along because ultimately it just doesn’t matter.
What I’m offering is the reality that there is no explanation once you’ve walked through the gate Jessicar
There it is ONCE YOU"VE WALKED THROUGH THE GATE, But you wish to take away the gate (the sorcerer's explanation in your equation) before people have had a chance to walk through it.