06-10-2011, 12:01 AM
[b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b]Lex[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b] Silentio wrote:[/b]
“They were men of great power, but they were not men of knowledge. They never broke the bounds of their enormous world views and thus they never arrived at the totality of themselves.” TOP, DJ The ancient old seers allowed themselves to be "seduced"by their own interpretation of the Rule. They made the error of identifying the Rule with their particulr interpretation. So I suppose they were self-indulgent , self- important egotistical sorcerers. The Rule is final. The Rule was never up for another interpretation only its design and configuration are in constant evolution. This would explain why every once in 2600 years or something like that it was time for a 3 pronged nagual like Castaneda to come along. The Old seers wound up worshipping or glorifying themselves and errecting in its honor.. is benefactor and teacher.
“Here is where I varied from the tradition. After a lifelong struggle I know that what matters is not to learn a new description but to arrive at the totality of oneself.” DJ TOPThe new seers rejected all that the old seers were doing. When the new seers began to explore stalking , they dusted offf the essence of sorcery and rediscovered the goal of total freedom which did not resemble religious goals in any way. IT ERASED THE FACINATION OF THE HUMAN MOLD, BUT IT HAD A SECONDARY EFFECT : THE WILD ENTHUSIASM OF THE OLD SEERS WAS SUBSTITUTED BY FURTIVE AND SUSPICIOUS ATTITUDES.
These two points are probably the most critical. These are the kind of things that get me asking questions. The kind of questioning that has led to this thread. Points worthy of deeper consideration.
Since at least 1723 I take it that DJ’s lineage had been forming nagual parties and leaving.
So what was it that these men of great power in DJ’s lineage, naguals included, what was it they missed? And why did they miss it or not arrive at it?How the Old Seers almost became extinct: The appearance of the Toltecs; The incorporation of STALKING DETERMINED THE BIRTH OF THE NEW SEERS>THE RULE OF THE NAGUAL IS COMPLETELY ELUCIDATED. Then why did DJ deviate or vary from the tradition of his predecessors?And what was the nature of his varying from tradition, how did it differ etc?IN THE END, THE EFFECT STALKNG HAD ON NAGUAL PARTIES WAS TO BETRAY THEIR INITIAL MOTIVE. IN TIME< THE GOAL OF TOTAL FREEDOM WAS REDUCED TO RHETORIC. ALMOST ALL THE SORCERERS OF DJ'S LINAGE PREFERRED THE FLIGHT TO THE 2nd ATTENTION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE NAGUAL JULIAN OSORIO, NONE OF THEM WANTED TO BE DEPRIVED OF THE ADVENTURE AND ECSTASY OF VISITING THE DOME OF THE NAGUALS, CONSTRUCTED OF INTENT, LOCATED ON ONE OF THE STARS OF THE CONSTELLATION ORION.“After a lifelong struggle I know that what matters is not to learn a new description but to arrive at the totality of oneself.” DJ
Why did DJ’s predecessors not know this? (DJ does suggest that some of them did know about this but could not arrive at it.) Why did they just adopt a new description, that is the implication here? Can one not accept the new description of the sorcerer’s view AND arrive at the totality of one’s self? If not why not?
It does seem though that one can adopt the new description of a sorcerer’s view and leave with a nagual party though?! I mean that is what happened to the nagual parties of DJ's lineage, they left without arriving at the Totality of them selves, according to DJ.
BE RIGOROUS in examination.NO RULE FOR THE STALKERS"BUT THERE WAS ONE THING THE ANCIENT SEERS DIDN"T VERIFY: THE RULE FOR THE STALKERS. THEY VIEWED STALKING AS A LATENT POSSIBILITY WHICH WAS NOT WORTHWHILE TO EXPLORE IN PRACTICE."WHY?BECAUSE IN AN ERA WHERE BEING A SORCERER MEANT BEING AT THE TOP OF THE SOCIAL SCALE, STALKING AS AN ART HAD NO PURPOSE. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A POOR INVESTMENT. BUT WHEN THE MODALITY OF THE TIME CHANGED, THAT LINE OF REASONING BROUGHT THE OLD SEERS ALMOST TO THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION." PS, ALL OF THIS info IS here http://www.inet.hr/~amodrusa/Tensegrity/armando.html
“They were men of great power, but they were not men of knowledge. They never broke the bounds of their enormous world views and thus they never arrived at the totality of themselves.” TOP, DJ The ancient old seers allowed themselves to be "seduced"by their own interpretation of the Rule. They made the error of identifying the Rule with their particulr interpretation. So I suppose they were self-indulgent , self- important egotistical sorcerers. The Rule is final. The Rule was never up for another interpretation only its design and configuration are in constant evolution. This would explain why every once in 2600 years or something like that it was time for a 3 pronged nagual like Castaneda to come along. The Old seers wound up worshipping or glorifying themselves and errecting in its honor.. is benefactor and teacher.
“Here is where I varied from the tradition. After a lifelong struggle I know that what matters is not to learn a new description but to arrive at the totality of oneself.” DJ TOPThe new seers rejected all that the old seers were doing. When the new seers began to explore stalking , they dusted offf the essence of sorcery and rediscovered the goal of total freedom which did not resemble religious goals in any way. IT ERASED THE FACINATION OF THE HUMAN MOLD, BUT IT HAD A SECONDARY EFFECT : THE WILD ENTHUSIASM OF THE OLD SEERS WAS SUBSTITUTED BY FURTIVE AND SUSPICIOUS ATTITUDES.
These two points are probably the most critical. These are the kind of things that get me asking questions. The kind of questioning that has led to this thread. Points worthy of deeper consideration.
Since at least 1723 I take it that DJ’s lineage had been forming nagual parties and leaving.
So what was it that these men of great power in DJ’s lineage, naguals included, what was it they missed? And why did they miss it or not arrive at it?How the Old Seers almost became extinct: The appearance of the Toltecs; The incorporation of STALKING DETERMINED THE BIRTH OF THE NEW SEERS>THE RULE OF THE NAGUAL IS COMPLETELY ELUCIDATED. Then why did DJ deviate or vary from the tradition of his predecessors?And what was the nature of his varying from tradition, how did it differ etc?IN THE END, THE EFFECT STALKNG HAD ON NAGUAL PARTIES WAS TO BETRAY THEIR INITIAL MOTIVE. IN TIME< THE GOAL OF TOTAL FREEDOM WAS REDUCED TO RHETORIC. ALMOST ALL THE SORCERERS OF DJ'S LINAGE PREFERRED THE FLIGHT TO THE 2nd ATTENTION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE NAGUAL JULIAN OSORIO, NONE OF THEM WANTED TO BE DEPRIVED OF THE ADVENTURE AND ECSTASY OF VISITING THE DOME OF THE NAGUALS, CONSTRUCTED OF INTENT, LOCATED ON ONE OF THE STARS OF THE CONSTELLATION ORION.“After a lifelong struggle I know that what matters is not to learn a new description but to arrive at the totality of oneself.” DJ
Why did DJ’s predecessors not know this? (DJ does suggest that some of them did know about this but could not arrive at it.) Why did they just adopt a new description, that is the implication here? Can one not accept the new description of the sorcerer’s view AND arrive at the totality of one’s self? If not why not?
It does seem though that one can adopt the new description of a sorcerer’s view and leave with a nagual party though?! I mean that is what happened to the nagual parties of DJ's lineage, they left without arriving at the Totality of them selves, according to DJ.
BE RIGOROUS in examination.NO RULE FOR THE STALKERS"BUT THERE WAS ONE THING THE ANCIENT SEERS DIDN"T VERIFY: THE RULE FOR THE STALKERS. THEY VIEWED STALKING AS A LATENT POSSIBILITY WHICH WAS NOT WORTHWHILE TO EXPLORE IN PRACTICE."WHY?BECAUSE IN AN ERA WHERE BEING A SORCERER MEANT BEING AT THE TOP OF THE SOCIAL SCALE, STALKING AS AN ART HAD NO PURPOSE. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A POOR INVESTMENT. BUT WHEN THE MODALITY OF THE TIME CHANGED, THAT LINE OF REASONING BROUGHT THE OLD SEERS ALMOST TO THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION." PS, ALL OF THIS info IS here http://www.inet.hr/~amodrusa/Tensegrity/armando.html