06-10-2011, 12:02 AM
nemo wrote:
Bob Said:
You just said that what it is to me is not at all what it is to you, and then you went on to describe exactly what I believe and said that that was what you believe.
That is the allegorical nature of reality. The reflections of reality revealing the real thing."
Ok Bob, For clarity can you discribe what the "real thing" is, just to be sure we are in agreement.
Hi Nemo,
If I said God we probably would not be in agreement. Each person's idea of God ( if they have one) grows as they do. If I said Truth the same would probably be true.
I would say that Reality is that which is permanent rather than temporary.
But back to the context of our conversation.
Jesus was approached by an angry mob asking him for his opinion about what should be done to a woman caught in adultery. He was stooping down writing letters in the dirt with a stick. He stood up and said, "Let you who are without sin cast the first stone." Then he stooped back down and began writing letters in the dirt with his stick.
He was, in my opinion, acting out with his body the same truth he was speaking to the crowd. The spirit of the law is above the letter. The law called for stoning of the woman.
My point here is that he was a living allegory. But not only was he a living allegory he saw the allegory going on around him.
Lu 12:24
Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?He saw in the physical world around him as symbols pointing to God's providence.
Paul saw things in the same way.
Ro 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:So the invisible, eternal things are shown by the things that are made or the thing which do appear.
Heb 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Ga 4:23
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Ga 4:24
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Ga 4:25
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Ga 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
So Paul sees the invisible through the appearance of things. He sees in the stories of two women and two mountains, two covenants. One symbolising total freedom and life the other slavery and death.
Jesus sees in a raven that God will provide for us.
So,..What is reality to me? That which the allegories are pointing to.
That which is invisible, eternal, provides for all of my needs and brings total freedom.
Bob Said:
You just said that what it is to me is not at all what it is to you, and then you went on to describe exactly what I believe and said that that was what you believe.
That is the allegorical nature of reality. The reflections of reality revealing the real thing."
Ok Bob, For clarity can you discribe what the "real thing" is, just to be sure we are in agreement.
Hi Nemo,
If I said God we probably would not be in agreement. Each person's idea of God ( if they have one) grows as they do. If I said Truth the same would probably be true.
I would say that Reality is that which is permanent rather than temporary.
But back to the context of our conversation.
Jesus was approached by an angry mob asking him for his opinion about what should be done to a woman caught in adultery. He was stooping down writing letters in the dirt with a stick. He stood up and said, "Let you who are without sin cast the first stone." Then he stooped back down and began writing letters in the dirt with his stick.
He was, in my opinion, acting out with his body the same truth he was speaking to the crowd. The spirit of the law is above the letter. The law called for stoning of the woman.
My point here is that he was a living allegory. But not only was he a living allegory he saw the allegory going on around him.
Lu 12:24
Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?He saw in the physical world around him as symbols pointing to God's providence.
Paul saw things in the same way.
Ro 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:So the invisible, eternal things are shown by the things that are made or the thing which do appear.
Heb 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Ga 4:23
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Ga 4:24
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Ga 4:25
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Ga 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
So Paul sees the invisible through the appearance of things. He sees in the stories of two women and two mountains, two covenants. One symbolising total freedom and life the other slavery and death.
Jesus sees in a raven that God will provide for us.
So,..What is reality to me? That which the allegories are pointing to.
That which is invisible, eternal, provides for all of my needs and brings total freedom.