06-12-2011, 12:02 AM
ninth octave wrote:
Bob May wrote:
ninth octave wrote:
HI Bob,
Do you believe their is an allegory for The Eagle , the Rule, The Nagual's Party. ???The raven is a bird like the eagle ...The Rule is impersonal , lacks kindness or compassion. I see an allegorical story in this too.We all know how symbolism works. A symbol is the clothing for a truth. An author uses symbols to communicate ideas. Ther idea is the truth or idea that the author is trying to communicate. You might look at a symbol as a veil. In Western mystical tradition there is a saying. "The veil that conceals a mystery, when meditated upon reveals the mystery."These veils can be words written in a book, the elements of the physical world around us, the situations that we find ourselves in etc.,
Allegory is a story made up of these symbols and truths.
After many years of bible study I found myself in the book. It told me exactly what I had done ten minutes before while experienceing a spiritual vision.Finding myself in the book was a life changing awareness of how this works.I see what you are meaning here, Bob. The Bible invites us in to have personal relationship with the Father and Son. I come closest to a Mary Magdalene with a cross between an Ezekiel and Gideon and Peter. Paul asks us to put on the mind of Christ, be imitators of his life. I am well behind in having much spiritual experiences but I believe every one living is written into the Logos.
When the experience of finding myself happened I asked my teacher did the words change? How does this happen? He said that some parts apply more to some people than others. The words don't change. We begin to understand them differently.Paul referred to the OT scriptures as the "Oracles of God." Oracles speak to the now. People would travel miles to the Oracle at Delphi to ask a question.We learn the language of God not so that God can understand us but so that we can understand him.Any Jew or Christian will agree that the bible was written for us and to us. What we are speaking of here is that the bible also speaks about us. It is not taught in churches because the teachers have not experienced it themselves and neither did their teachers.My own teacher hinted at it by saying that the bible was a roadmap and a "Mystic's handbook" He only discussed it with me after I related my experiences in private.My own experiences followed Jacob and Joseph in the OT and I have gone over those stories with a microscope because of that.Lately and some since and because of this thread I have seen more about the sons born to Joseph and more about the recorded life of Jesus in my own life. His pattern working in my life.The bible is not a history book and it is not linear. Even though it is layed out in order of when each book was written for the most part. We may find ourselves anywhere but the End or Goal is growing into full realisation of the Sons of God, so the culmination will be in the New Testament. Yet we still learn from the Old if we read it allegorically. Because hidden within it, behind veils of symbolism is the New Covenant which actually started at Abraham. Before Jacob, Joseph, Joshua etc.Jesus said that Moses wrote of him.He also said that before Abraham was, I AM.
By the way, to be imitators is not what I am talking about. There is nothing wrong with that mindset, but finding yourself just happens to you. Imitating is something we initiate. If you see yourself in a story, study it to find the hidden things and they will gradually come to you. And sometimes in very large clumps. The pieces add up all on their own it seems. That is Christ teaching us.
Jesus was baptised and went into the wilderness. The first thing he did was find himself written in the book and read it standing in the synagog.This is an excellent example of what you're meaning.
This is because he was showing us a pattern that we are completely unaware of until this experience happens to us. This is the way it has been happening for me. God showing the patterns of the OT matching to the spiritual experiences that equate with the blessing of those who can see the beginning and the end. To be in the spiritual experience or seeing someone in the spiritual experience is a blessing also.
People's faces change during some spiritual experiences. I have seen people as various creatures. There are levels of us like an onion. It can be a frightening or just shocking depending on what level and, I suppose what person you are with. I haven't figured all of that out yet but it is very interesting.
I have had similar experiences since then. Jesus said "Follow me" and "I am the way." This was not a request.All I could think was that the book was alive when this happened to me. No, it was I that was becoming aware or alive.The Book is pregnate and living and breathing organism. Never runs out of its energy and one will find a way to see things in a new and different light. It will appear for you to see and know in a different context when previously it didn't seem it was there.
The greatest example of this is when you begin to get an awareness of Grace. To a person under the law the entire bible both Old and New Testaments is a book of rules and regulations. To a person under Grace it is saying we are free and loved and approved by God, that our shortcomings are not held against us. 2ti 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.To a person under the Law the verse above is condemning because how much study is enough? Is it ever enough? And if not we are not approved by God.To a person who is under Grace that same verse is telling us the reason to study and what to look for. The entire bible is telling us we are approved of God. That we need not be ashamed. That is Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth.
Later, I began to see that this same thing was happening, not just in the book but around me in the environment and events I call my life.
The Eagle is obviously a veil. It is covering or veiling a reality that sorcerer's wish to experience. There are many referrences to "Eagle" in the bible.And a good image of Jesus hovering above the Place of the Skull (Golgotha) with his wings of perception spread out as if beconing the entire world to join him.
Isa 40:31
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Bob May wrote:
ninth octave wrote:
HI Bob,
Do you believe their is an allegory for The Eagle , the Rule, The Nagual's Party. ???The raven is a bird like the eagle ...The Rule is impersonal , lacks kindness or compassion. I see an allegorical story in this too.We all know how symbolism works. A symbol is the clothing for a truth. An author uses symbols to communicate ideas. Ther idea is the truth or idea that the author is trying to communicate. You might look at a symbol as a veil. In Western mystical tradition there is a saying. "The veil that conceals a mystery, when meditated upon reveals the mystery."These veils can be words written in a book, the elements of the physical world around us, the situations that we find ourselves in etc.,
Allegory is a story made up of these symbols and truths.
After many years of bible study I found myself in the book. It told me exactly what I had done ten minutes before while experienceing a spiritual vision.Finding myself in the book was a life changing awareness of how this works.I see what you are meaning here, Bob. The Bible invites us in to have personal relationship with the Father and Son. I come closest to a Mary Magdalene with a cross between an Ezekiel and Gideon and Peter. Paul asks us to put on the mind of Christ, be imitators of his life. I am well behind in having much spiritual experiences but I believe every one living is written into the Logos.
When the experience of finding myself happened I asked my teacher did the words change? How does this happen? He said that some parts apply more to some people than others. The words don't change. We begin to understand them differently.Paul referred to the OT scriptures as the "Oracles of God." Oracles speak to the now. People would travel miles to the Oracle at Delphi to ask a question.We learn the language of God not so that God can understand us but so that we can understand him.Any Jew or Christian will agree that the bible was written for us and to us. What we are speaking of here is that the bible also speaks about us. It is not taught in churches because the teachers have not experienced it themselves and neither did their teachers.My own teacher hinted at it by saying that the bible was a roadmap and a "Mystic's handbook" He only discussed it with me after I related my experiences in private.My own experiences followed Jacob and Joseph in the OT and I have gone over those stories with a microscope because of that.Lately and some since and because of this thread I have seen more about the sons born to Joseph and more about the recorded life of Jesus in my own life. His pattern working in my life.The bible is not a history book and it is not linear. Even though it is layed out in order of when each book was written for the most part. We may find ourselves anywhere but the End or Goal is growing into full realisation of the Sons of God, so the culmination will be in the New Testament. Yet we still learn from the Old if we read it allegorically. Because hidden within it, behind veils of symbolism is the New Covenant which actually started at Abraham. Before Jacob, Joseph, Joshua etc.Jesus said that Moses wrote of him.He also said that before Abraham was, I AM.
By the way, to be imitators is not what I am talking about. There is nothing wrong with that mindset, but finding yourself just happens to you. Imitating is something we initiate. If you see yourself in a story, study it to find the hidden things and they will gradually come to you. And sometimes in very large clumps. The pieces add up all on their own it seems. That is Christ teaching us.
Jesus was baptised and went into the wilderness. The first thing he did was find himself written in the book and read it standing in the synagog.This is an excellent example of what you're meaning.
This is because he was showing us a pattern that we are completely unaware of until this experience happens to us. This is the way it has been happening for me. God showing the patterns of the OT matching to the spiritual experiences that equate with the blessing of those who can see the beginning and the end. To be in the spiritual experience or seeing someone in the spiritual experience is a blessing also.
People's faces change during some spiritual experiences. I have seen people as various creatures. There are levels of us like an onion. It can be a frightening or just shocking depending on what level and, I suppose what person you are with. I haven't figured all of that out yet but it is very interesting.
I have had similar experiences since then. Jesus said "Follow me" and "I am the way." This was not a request.All I could think was that the book was alive when this happened to me. No, it was I that was becoming aware or alive.The Book is pregnate and living and breathing organism. Never runs out of its energy and one will find a way to see things in a new and different light. It will appear for you to see and know in a different context when previously it didn't seem it was there.
The greatest example of this is when you begin to get an awareness of Grace. To a person under the law the entire bible both Old and New Testaments is a book of rules and regulations. To a person under Grace it is saying we are free and loved and approved by God, that our shortcomings are not held against us. 2ti 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.To a person under the Law the verse above is condemning because how much study is enough? Is it ever enough? And if not we are not approved by God.To a person who is under Grace that same verse is telling us the reason to study and what to look for. The entire bible is telling us we are approved of God. That we need not be ashamed. That is Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth.
Later, I began to see that this same thing was happening, not just in the book but around me in the environment and events I call my life.
The Eagle is obviously a veil. It is covering or veiling a reality that sorcerer's wish to experience. There are many referrences to "Eagle" in the bible.And a good image of Jesus hovering above the Place of the Skull (Golgotha) with his wings of perception spread out as if beconing the entire world to join him.
Isa 40:31
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.