06-21-2011, 12:02 AM
ninth octave wrote:
A bubble doesn't exist very long . Breaking the bubble of perception, is this metaphorical for thoughts quickly dissipate? or is it like a one time thing were your perception finally breaks thru a barrier?
Php 3:13
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Ro 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
I don't know if there is a "finally" involved here. The times I have had extra ordinary experiences what would follow is weeks of living in another world, so to speak. This "other world" perception usually last for a few weeks. It has happened many times and each time I think that this time it will be a permanent change.
I think the bubble analogy is that when we are inside the bubble we are limited in our awareness and the stretching of the bubble and the thinning of the walls of it happen gradually and then all at once, it pops. "A little at a time and then all at once," is how Don Juan described stopping the world.
Jesus said the kingdom of heaven was as if a woman hid leaven in three measures of meal and after a time the whole was leavened. But he also said he came suddenly and quickly and in the twinkling of an eye.
I've had this conversation with Lex and what I consider stopping the world, he relates to breaking the bubble of perception. It is difficult to tell which Don Juan meant because of this idea of permanence he mentioned in the sorcerer's explanation. He also uses this same type of analogy when describing the island of the tonal and the nagual as the sea. What I call stopping the world and Lex calls breaking the bubble, if I am understanding him correctly. It is definitely experiencing the outside of the bubble (or island of the tonal) for extended periods of time. Also, there is the idea of permanence in the fact that I can never look at the world the same way as I did before I ever experienced this phenomena. I just do not remain in the "thick of it," if that makes sense.
The first time this happened to me it lasted for months and I had a very hard time coming back from it. I had no philisophical or religious structure that I could use to make any sense of it whatsoever. Only the first four Castaneda books as a guide. They are good at helpng to open the doors, but almost useless when it comes to closing them. Later it happened again several times and at these times I had some biblical and Qabalistic background to help me get through it. Still very negative experiences but with an interpretation based on biblical knowledge and symbolism.
I realized that it is actually the story of Noah's flood. And in that story, God promises not to destroy the earth with water ever again. That was a big help to me.
Now I find this phenomena very interesting and look forward to it but also as something that should be "bypassed." It is not the end game, only a another stop along the road on a trip that might never end. I think the idea of not thinking of ourselves more highly than we aught is applicable here. If I think I have arrived somewhere then I have no reason to seek further. That way of thinking is a block. I am not talking about humility, just practicality.
What I call stopping the world has happened to me many times and each time it is different. The environment is not the same.
But within those experiences which are second attention for the most part, come flashes of knowledge from above that that breaks through to help me understand more each time. These are the little stones (Petros) that Simon/hearing (Peter/Petros) recieved from the Father which turn into the One Stone (Petra) upon which the church is built. Jesus gave him that new name at that time. Hearing from the Father changes us. This is Revelation. This is what is important to me. Just as Jacob used "Stones" for his pillow when he saw Jacob's ladder which reached from heaven to earth. When he awoke it was One Stone and his name changed to Israel.
His name changed because of this experience. We change because of this type of experience also. Wisdom is knowing without having known. It comes in pieces. Understanding is putting the pieces together into a whole. Both are Spiritual gifts.
Again in Revelation the same theme occurs. The bride of Christ comes down from heaven (just like Peter's flashes of knowledge from the father) as One stone clear as crystal.
Now your beginning to get into permanence. But I think it is closer than we think and that it is an individual thing rather than some distant event in the future. We have enough separate experiences and it all becomes one thing which then overcomes this description of the world we keep coming back to.
The Sorcerer's explanation was not given to Carlos until he had had enough third attention experiences. You cannot have understanding without an explanation and you also cannot have understanding until you have something to put together to understand. The stones are wisdom. The Stone is understanding.
A bubble doesn't exist very long . Breaking the bubble of perception, is this metaphorical for thoughts quickly dissipate? or is it like a one time thing were your perception finally breaks thru a barrier?
Php 3:13
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Ro 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
I don't know if there is a "finally" involved here. The times I have had extra ordinary experiences what would follow is weeks of living in another world, so to speak. This "other world" perception usually last for a few weeks. It has happened many times and each time I think that this time it will be a permanent change.
I think the bubble analogy is that when we are inside the bubble we are limited in our awareness and the stretching of the bubble and the thinning of the walls of it happen gradually and then all at once, it pops. "A little at a time and then all at once," is how Don Juan described stopping the world.
Jesus said the kingdom of heaven was as if a woman hid leaven in three measures of meal and after a time the whole was leavened. But he also said he came suddenly and quickly and in the twinkling of an eye.
I've had this conversation with Lex and what I consider stopping the world, he relates to breaking the bubble of perception. It is difficult to tell which Don Juan meant because of this idea of permanence he mentioned in the sorcerer's explanation. He also uses this same type of analogy when describing the island of the tonal and the nagual as the sea. What I call stopping the world and Lex calls breaking the bubble, if I am understanding him correctly. It is definitely experiencing the outside of the bubble (or island of the tonal) for extended periods of time. Also, there is the idea of permanence in the fact that I can never look at the world the same way as I did before I ever experienced this phenomena. I just do not remain in the "thick of it," if that makes sense.
The first time this happened to me it lasted for months and I had a very hard time coming back from it. I had no philisophical or religious structure that I could use to make any sense of it whatsoever. Only the first four Castaneda books as a guide. They are good at helpng to open the doors, but almost useless when it comes to closing them. Later it happened again several times and at these times I had some biblical and Qabalistic background to help me get through it. Still very negative experiences but with an interpretation based on biblical knowledge and symbolism.
I realized that it is actually the story of Noah's flood. And in that story, God promises not to destroy the earth with water ever again. That was a big help to me.
Now I find this phenomena very interesting and look forward to it but also as something that should be "bypassed." It is not the end game, only a another stop along the road on a trip that might never end. I think the idea of not thinking of ourselves more highly than we aught is applicable here. If I think I have arrived somewhere then I have no reason to seek further. That way of thinking is a block. I am not talking about humility, just practicality.
What I call stopping the world has happened to me many times and each time it is different. The environment is not the same.
But within those experiences which are second attention for the most part, come flashes of knowledge from above that that breaks through to help me understand more each time. These are the little stones (Petros) that Simon/hearing (Peter/Petros) recieved from the Father which turn into the One Stone (Petra) upon which the church is built. Jesus gave him that new name at that time. Hearing from the Father changes us. This is Revelation. This is what is important to me. Just as Jacob used "Stones" for his pillow when he saw Jacob's ladder which reached from heaven to earth. When he awoke it was One Stone and his name changed to Israel.
His name changed because of this experience. We change because of this type of experience also. Wisdom is knowing without having known. It comes in pieces. Understanding is putting the pieces together into a whole. Both are Spiritual gifts.
Again in Revelation the same theme occurs. The bride of Christ comes down from heaven (just like Peter's flashes of knowledge from the father) as One stone clear as crystal.
Now your beginning to get into permanence. But I think it is closer than we think and that it is an individual thing rather than some distant event in the future. We have enough separate experiences and it all becomes one thing which then overcomes this description of the world we keep coming back to.
The Sorcerer's explanation was not given to Carlos until he had had enough third attention experiences. You cannot have understanding without an explanation and you also cannot have understanding until you have something to put together to understand. The stones are wisdom. The Stone is understanding.