07-10-2010, 12:00 AM
Leonidas wrote:
Interdependency with outer forces might prove to be impossible to beat, but freedom in the nagual sense is something more simple.
Still, I have to remind you Naga that the Mexican Nagual Seers remain prisoners of Power, that meaning that they are not "free from outer forces" per se. They are, still, far more independent and free than the average dull person.
As for the gifts of power of the Nagual Death Defier (Xoxonapo), they are a gift, a lesson and a test of impeccability. Most Naguals fail that test, for the gifts can be very seductive, making them lose their way.
This is true but still i think that death defier could be interporeted as a foreingn force. He needed nagual power, in order to manifest itself and maybe maintain is perception throught the gates of second attention.
It is also tru that lesson can come indifferently from nagual, as well as pinche tiranos as well form defier and other forces, but in his/her/its (and god know whaterver :-) activities woith the Naguals of that lineage she used her knoledge about them, stalking their personnality as preys. Wonderfull form the pint of view of the occasion to accept the challenge with oneself.
You are right. The question beyond this considerations for me now could be what does it mean to count only on oneself? Is it possible this perception? How can we be sure of this, as also our self is a foreign installation (as stated by DJ)? I know your asnwer (or a part of it) and my question are of course in the most part methaphorical, but we have not any assurance that once broken the chains with lower forces we won't find other ones which could try to plunder us.
And still, this above is not a good reason to accept our limits (which are under our complete responsibilities).
Nice day Leo.
Interdependency with outer forces might prove to be impossible to beat, but freedom in the nagual sense is something more simple.
Still, I have to remind you Naga that the Mexican Nagual Seers remain prisoners of Power, that meaning that they are not "free from outer forces" per se. They are, still, far more independent and free than the average dull person.
As for the gifts of power of the Nagual Death Defier (Xoxonapo), they are a gift, a lesson and a test of impeccability. Most Naguals fail that test, for the gifts can be very seductive, making them lose their way.
This is true but still i think that death defier could be interporeted as a foreingn force. He needed nagual power, in order to manifest itself and maybe maintain is perception throught the gates of second attention.
It is also tru that lesson can come indifferently from nagual, as well as pinche tiranos as well form defier and other forces, but in his/her/its (and god know whaterver :-) activities woith the Naguals of that lineage she used her knoledge about them, stalking their personnality as preys. Wonderfull form the pint of view of the occasion to accept the challenge with oneself.
You are right. The question beyond this considerations for me now could be what does it mean to count only on oneself? Is it possible this perception? How can we be sure of this, as also our self is a foreign installation (as stated by DJ)? I know your asnwer (or a part of it) and my question are of course in the most part methaphorical, but we have not any assurance that once broken the chains with lower forces we won't find other ones which could try to plunder us.
And still, this above is not a good reason to accept our limits (which are under our complete responsibilities).
Nice day Leo.