11-27-2011, 12:01 AM
songbird wrote:
LOL!
Just one point to make here, been a great read so far this thread btw... is that I would put a small line in between a lie that is a trickery by a teacher (or parent for that matter) in order to eventually achieve a positive end, and a lie told for purely selfish reasons. Not that it matters, but the word lie does have some rather ugly connotations. At the end of the day, however, when you are alone in your bed, just you, yourself and your death, nothing anyone else has ever said to you really matters, lie or not!
It's all just flying french poodles!
Lori...
I agree completely: there's a difference between coyote trickery from a teacher and just outright lying. Even don Juan admitted that he himself was a "liar" in the trickster sense, when he made the reference to the fact that we have to be tricked onto the path because no sane person would do it. There's a lot of truth to that, so the only way to the truth is through the lie (trick). In my own case, Orlando "lied" to me about several things for a long time, because if he had told me the truth, I would have walked away and he obviously knew that. This is simply how the game is played, because especially in the early stages of a warrior's development, one couldn't even COMPREHEND the truth if it could be handed to them on a silver platter.
If Orlando had said to me at the onset, "Hey, Della, just wanted to tell you the truth. I'm your double, whom you created to create you, whom you dreamed to dream you, but I exist ubiquitously throughout the space-time continuum, including in your childhood-past, even though you may not create me until 20 years from now; and my primary task is to give you the tools of knowledge with which to project yourself beyond the eagle and into the infinite..."
Needless to say, I would've smiled and nodded while carefully backing away. Heh.
So he lied by what he implied. "Hey, little girl. Want to live forever?"
I was hooked onto the path.
That's what the double does. It's what our teachers do if they're worth their salt. And in the end, it is precisely what WE need, or we would have created a different reality.
It's all good. Even the lies.
___________
But just in case there is any doubt... I do agree that lying just for the sake of lying or for personal/selfish gain, is a whole other can o' stink. We've certainly seen enough of THAT just on these forums over the years, eh?
LOL!
Just one point to make here, been a great read so far this thread btw... is that I would put a small line in between a lie that is a trickery by a teacher (or parent for that matter) in order to eventually achieve a positive end, and a lie told for purely selfish reasons. Not that it matters, but the word lie does have some rather ugly connotations. At the end of the day, however, when you are alone in your bed, just you, yourself and your death, nothing anyone else has ever said to you really matters, lie or not!
It's all just flying french poodles!
Lori...
I agree completely: there's a difference between coyote trickery from a teacher and just outright lying. Even don Juan admitted that he himself was a "liar" in the trickster sense, when he made the reference to the fact that we have to be tricked onto the path because no sane person would do it. There's a lot of truth to that, so the only way to the truth is through the lie (trick). In my own case, Orlando "lied" to me about several things for a long time, because if he had told me the truth, I would have walked away and he obviously knew that. This is simply how the game is played, because especially in the early stages of a warrior's development, one couldn't even COMPREHEND the truth if it could be handed to them on a silver platter.
If Orlando had said to me at the onset, "Hey, Della, just wanted to tell you the truth. I'm your double, whom you created to create you, whom you dreamed to dream you, but I exist ubiquitously throughout the space-time continuum, including in your childhood-past, even though you may not create me until 20 years from now; and my primary task is to give you the tools of knowledge with which to project yourself beyond the eagle and into the infinite..."
Needless to say, I would've smiled and nodded while carefully backing away. Heh.
So he lied by what he implied. "Hey, little girl. Want to live forever?"
I was hooked onto the path.
That's what the double does. It's what our teachers do if they're worth their salt. And in the end, it is precisely what WE need, or we would have created a different reality.
It's all good. Even the lies.
___________
But just in case there is any doubt... I do agree that lying just for the sake of lying or for personal/selfish gain, is a whole other can o' stink. We've certainly seen enough of THAT just on these forums over the years, eh?