06-30-2007, 12:00 AM
You're stuck in your Catholic inventory more than I thought Bob May. My dad was raised catholic too and he is so trapped by that complete brainwashing though he was excommunicated and rejected that religion when he was 19 years old (he's now 75). For 56 years he's been trying to pull his mind out of that FI.
Quote:the teaching was merely a way to shift awareness, but you do not want to stay at that assemblage point forever."~Bob
Exactly. And the difference between the Bible and the teachings of don Juan is that the Bible gives strict codes to adhere to. It encourages stale inventories and discourages personal freedom.
Whereas the teachings of don Juan encourage abandoning even his inventories at a given point and only looking at abstract cores behind them. Where in the Bible does it say, in essence, "ignore the nuts and bolts you see here and just shine your own link in your own way." If it says that, then that would be a minority of what is written in the Bible...an afterthought...alluded to in an offhand way instead of drilled into its reader.
With don Juan's wisdom we have personal empowerment and freedom mentioned every third sentence. In fact when I was studying the Bible and all of its misogynistic "laws", I kept thinking to myself: "this has very little to do with what an enlightened being would teach". It felt like a trap set up for the dull of wits to ensnare their perception into a certain fold: that of 9th century Roman redactors to be exact...and I can assure you that a bunch of powerful roman men in that century would've edited and omitted the **** out of an enlightened beings teachings if they flew directly in the face of their powerhold. That being namely, the subjegation and overlordship over women of all classes and peasant or workingclass men.
If Jesus taught of equality for women (which many scholars believe is true: that women held equal status in the earliest christian followings) then upon the continuing redaction (redaction= "reworking") of the Bible by powerful roman men, often posing as "christians", then anything that even hinted of their underlings realizing personal empowerment would've been, and in fact was, "redacted".
It would be akin to reading the KKK's version of the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King. Along that lines of "sincere inclusion" of actual statements of Dr. King's.
In the early days, Jesus was an upstart that many powerful romans objected to in a big way. However, his followers were too numerous so instead of pounding that ideology out of existance, the savy and wiley Constantine incorporated the roman version of Jesus' teachings to keep the masses in line, faithful to the roman overule and subdued.
Quote:As time went on Constantine should become ever more involved with the Christian church. He appeared at first to have very little grasp of the basic beliefs governing Christian faith. But gradually he must have become more acquainted with them. So much so that he sought to resolve theological disputes among the church itself.
In this role he summoned the bishops of the western provinces to Arelate (Arles) in AD 314, after the so-called Donatist schism had split the church in Africa. If this willingness to resolve matters through peaceful debate showed one side of Constantine, then his brutal enforcement of the decisions reached at such meetings showed the other. Following the decision of the council of bishops at Arelate, donatist churches were confiscated and the followers of this branch of Christianity were brutally repressed. Evidently Constantine was also capable of persecuting Christians, if they were deemed to be the 'wrong type of Christians'.~LINK
Later, the redactors continued the tradition of whittling away the original knowledge of the master Jesus:
Quote:Jesus was proclaimed a king as even the gospels admit and as such he was a rival to Caesar and a threat to the Empire. That was no trivial crime and required detailed reports from the Roman governor to the Emperor. If, though, as Christians maintain, it was not worth recording and indeed was not recorded, it seems curious that early opponents and critics of Christianity failed to question the absence of independent evidence of Jesus's existence. The Christian apologists did not attempt to answer any such questions, so apparently they were not put. Only in modern times have critics argued that Jesus never existed at all.
In the early days of Christianity, its critics' main argument was a different oneJesus was a bandit and a magician and, remarkably, that the records of the time proved it! A Jewish source says Jesus was crucified at Lydda as a false teacher and a beguiler. Celsus and Lucian early in the second century and Sossianus Hierocles late in the third tell us that Jesus was a sorcerer and a fomenter of rebellion who committed highway robbery at the head of a band of men. These documents existed because later scholars refer to them. But where are they now? Gone! Nothing of this remains now because Christians, when they came to power under Constantine, began to destroy anything contrary to their own view.
The death penalty was prescribed for anyone owning or trying to preserve any books describing Jesus as a magician or an agitator!..
..Passages were removed from Lucian. The works of Celsus and Sossianus Hierocles were suppressed and we now only have quotations made from them by Christian polemicists. Many old manuscripts in museums and archives are testimony to the Christian censors blotting out sentences or sometimes obscuring whole pages by spilt ink.
Besides official censorship, Christian editors and copyists, altered passages as they saw fit...
..Jews also had to alter their records if the Christian censor was not to burn them. Explicit references to Jesus were replaced by references to "a certain one". The version of the Old Testament written in Greek, the Septuagint, was also tampered with by the Christians who then accused the Jews of altering their own version. In the pogroms of the Middle Ages, Jewish Scriptures were burnt by the cartload. In 1263 AD King Jayme I of Aragon in Spain ordered that all Jewish books should be destroyed.
The greatest act of Christian vandalism of all was the torching of the magnificent library of Alexandria in the fifth century. This wholesale destruction of accumulated wisdom in the name of God precipitated the dark ages from which we did not recover until the Renaissance.~Comprehensive overview of the history of christianity
And where is the Vatican today, the supposed "uberauthority" on all things "christian". Oh, yes, that would be Rome, Italy.
The Bible...yeah, right...
But unfortunately it and the parts of the Gnostic gospels that weren't redacted to death are all we have of this great enlightened being's teachings. Sifting through it all takes seeing. Finding the lost parts takes seeing. And seeing was given to us via don Juan. You say don Juan isn't helping people as Jesus does. I say you're wrong. Who knows where don Juan's awareness is lodged right now? How do we know he wasn't dedicated to our betterment and via his legacy we will reach the abstract cores of enlightenment that many masters have taught since the dawn of time?
Don Juan taught: follow a path with a heart, all others are dead-end roads. In a nutshell, this is the entire summation of all of Jesus' teachings. This is the abstract core in fact that binds all religions of the world. The rest of it is all human excrement and dated inventories of old civilizations which, like all civilizations, have their heads mostly lodged deep in their asses.
"The Reality Is That You Will Die. The Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."
Quote:the teaching was merely a way to shift awareness, but you do not want to stay at that assemblage point forever."~Bob
Exactly. And the difference between the Bible and the teachings of don Juan is that the Bible gives strict codes to adhere to. It encourages stale inventories and discourages personal freedom.
Whereas the teachings of don Juan encourage abandoning even his inventories at a given point and only looking at abstract cores behind them. Where in the Bible does it say, in essence, "ignore the nuts and bolts you see here and just shine your own link in your own way." If it says that, then that would be a minority of what is written in the Bible...an afterthought...alluded to in an offhand way instead of drilled into its reader.
With don Juan's wisdom we have personal empowerment and freedom mentioned every third sentence. In fact when I was studying the Bible and all of its misogynistic "laws", I kept thinking to myself: "this has very little to do with what an enlightened being would teach". It felt like a trap set up for the dull of wits to ensnare their perception into a certain fold: that of 9th century Roman redactors to be exact...and I can assure you that a bunch of powerful roman men in that century would've edited and omitted the **** out of an enlightened beings teachings if they flew directly in the face of their powerhold. That being namely, the subjegation and overlordship over women of all classes and peasant or workingclass men.
If Jesus taught of equality for women (which many scholars believe is true: that women held equal status in the earliest christian followings) then upon the continuing redaction (redaction= "reworking") of the Bible by powerful roman men, often posing as "christians", then anything that even hinted of their underlings realizing personal empowerment would've been, and in fact was, "redacted".
It would be akin to reading the KKK's version of the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King. Along that lines of "sincere inclusion" of actual statements of Dr. King's.
In the early days, Jesus was an upstart that many powerful romans objected to in a big way. However, his followers were too numerous so instead of pounding that ideology out of existance, the savy and wiley Constantine incorporated the roman version of Jesus' teachings to keep the masses in line, faithful to the roman overule and subdued.
Quote:As time went on Constantine should become ever more involved with the Christian church. He appeared at first to have very little grasp of the basic beliefs governing Christian faith. But gradually he must have become more acquainted with them. So much so that he sought to resolve theological disputes among the church itself.
In this role he summoned the bishops of the western provinces to Arelate (Arles) in AD 314, after the so-called Donatist schism had split the church in Africa. If this willingness to resolve matters through peaceful debate showed one side of Constantine, then his brutal enforcement of the decisions reached at such meetings showed the other. Following the decision of the council of bishops at Arelate, donatist churches were confiscated and the followers of this branch of Christianity were brutally repressed. Evidently Constantine was also capable of persecuting Christians, if they were deemed to be the 'wrong type of Christians'.~LINK
Later, the redactors continued the tradition of whittling away the original knowledge of the master Jesus:
Quote:Jesus was proclaimed a king as even the gospels admit and as such he was a rival to Caesar and a threat to the Empire. That was no trivial crime and required detailed reports from the Roman governor to the Emperor. If, though, as Christians maintain, it was not worth recording and indeed was not recorded, it seems curious that early opponents and critics of Christianity failed to question the absence of independent evidence of Jesus's existence. The Christian apologists did not attempt to answer any such questions, so apparently they were not put. Only in modern times have critics argued that Jesus never existed at all.
In the early days of Christianity, its critics' main argument was a different oneJesus was a bandit and a magician and, remarkably, that the records of the time proved it! A Jewish source says Jesus was crucified at Lydda as a false teacher and a beguiler. Celsus and Lucian early in the second century and Sossianus Hierocles late in the third tell us that Jesus was a sorcerer and a fomenter of rebellion who committed highway robbery at the head of a band of men. These documents existed because later scholars refer to them. But where are they now? Gone! Nothing of this remains now because Christians, when they came to power under Constantine, began to destroy anything contrary to their own view.
The death penalty was prescribed for anyone owning or trying to preserve any books describing Jesus as a magician or an agitator!..
..Passages were removed from Lucian. The works of Celsus and Sossianus Hierocles were suppressed and we now only have quotations made from them by Christian polemicists. Many old manuscripts in museums and archives are testimony to the Christian censors blotting out sentences or sometimes obscuring whole pages by spilt ink.
Besides official censorship, Christian editors and copyists, altered passages as they saw fit...
..Jews also had to alter their records if the Christian censor was not to burn them. Explicit references to Jesus were replaced by references to "a certain one". The version of the Old Testament written in Greek, the Septuagint, was also tampered with by the Christians who then accused the Jews of altering their own version. In the pogroms of the Middle Ages, Jewish Scriptures were burnt by the cartload. In 1263 AD King Jayme I of Aragon in Spain ordered that all Jewish books should be destroyed.
The greatest act of Christian vandalism of all was the torching of the magnificent library of Alexandria in the fifth century. This wholesale destruction of accumulated wisdom in the name of God precipitated the dark ages from which we did not recover until the Renaissance.~Comprehensive overview of the history of christianity
And where is the Vatican today, the supposed "uberauthority" on all things "christian". Oh, yes, that would be Rome, Italy.
The Bible...yeah, right...
But unfortunately it and the parts of the Gnostic gospels that weren't redacted to death are all we have of this great enlightened being's teachings. Sifting through it all takes seeing. Finding the lost parts takes seeing. And seeing was given to us via don Juan. You say don Juan isn't helping people as Jesus does. I say you're wrong. Who knows where don Juan's awareness is lodged right now? How do we know he wasn't dedicated to our betterment and via his legacy we will reach the abstract cores of enlightenment that many masters have taught since the dawn of time?
Don Juan taught: follow a path with a heart, all others are dead-end roads. In a nutshell, this is the entire summation of all of Jesus' teachings. This is the abstract core in fact that binds all religions of the world. The rest of it is all human excrement and dated inventories of old civilizations which, like all civilizations, have their heads mostly lodged deep in their asses.
"The Reality Is That You Will Die. The Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."