03-14-2011, 12:00 AM
Sedna wrote:Gonzo wrote:
You do not see any of the techniques of the Naguals in Castaneda's books as stalking? Perhaps we ought to re-write the dictionary.
I would not have called them that, no. Nor is what people are doing and calling stalking reproductions of anything the players in Castaneda's books did. Never once did Genero or DJ engage in verbal battles and then tell CC he was wrong for reacting. So, short point, if you want me to believe your premise then you will have to make your case by clearly setting out your examples and expain your reason for calling them stalking rather than what they are. I am not sure how to say this politely, but if you are going to make something up you had better be prepared to lay it out...just saying.
What I did see in the techniques used to get CC to certain realizations was what I would call "propping." However, the "propping" they did looked nothing like: "when you do that it really means this." And, I don't believe that DJ or any of the others ever called CC "wrong."
Although, I suppose if you wanted to climb a cliff face with your tenticles for people (assuming you were able to do that) then I suppose you could call it whatever you wanted to...or telling people how you cannot get back to Ixtlan. Is that what you are doing??? I don't know, just guessing here, but maybe you are mixing up CC's books and internet lingo???? There is a term called "stalking" in internet lingo that more closely matches what it is your are doing and calling stalking...however, like stalking in real life, it usually involves a fair amount of obsession.
I would agree Internet stalking is usually a war of egos, and perhaps the word is a bit too loaded to describe the teaching techniques of the Naguals. However, it's somewhat like "sorcery", which don Juan admitted was inadquate to describe what many here like to call "nagualism", essentially a summation of the teachings of don Juan.
In my opinion, the term is relevant since what occurs matches the prime definition of stalking. Perhaps the difference lies in the ultimate aim. In Internet stalking it's perhaps a battle of wits, or a battle, as you stated, to see who is "right", which seldom occurs. What seems primarily to occur in Internet stalking is entertainment since it's a jousting match.
The reason I believe the teaching technique may be called stalking is that the teacher is essentially in the role of the hunter. His attentions are focused on the "prey" (aka student) and what is observed are the mannerisms and habits of the "prey", not for the sake of ridicule or proving the "prey" wrong, but for the sake of suggesting the "prey" examine his beliefs and usually unconscious reflex behaviors for the sake of discovering an alternate way. Don Juan continually suggested to CC there were, as was said in Shakespeare, more things in heaven and earth than resided in his philosophy. As I said elsewhere, in my opinion, just about every teaching instance in the books reflects this technique, however, more examples could be provided if you want.
You do not see any of the techniques of the Naguals in Castaneda's books as stalking? Perhaps we ought to re-write the dictionary.
I would not have called them that, no. Nor is what people are doing and calling stalking reproductions of anything the players in Castaneda's books did. Never once did Genero or DJ engage in verbal battles and then tell CC he was wrong for reacting. So, short point, if you want me to believe your premise then you will have to make your case by clearly setting out your examples and expain your reason for calling them stalking rather than what they are. I am not sure how to say this politely, but if you are going to make something up you had better be prepared to lay it out...just saying.
What I did see in the techniques used to get CC to certain realizations was what I would call "propping." However, the "propping" they did looked nothing like: "when you do that it really means this." And, I don't believe that DJ or any of the others ever called CC "wrong."
Although, I suppose if you wanted to climb a cliff face with your tenticles for people (assuming you were able to do that) then I suppose you could call it whatever you wanted to...or telling people how you cannot get back to Ixtlan. Is that what you are doing??? I don't know, just guessing here, but maybe you are mixing up CC's books and internet lingo???? There is a term called "stalking" in internet lingo that more closely matches what it is your are doing and calling stalking...however, like stalking in real life, it usually involves a fair amount of obsession.
I would agree Internet stalking is usually a war of egos, and perhaps the word is a bit too loaded to describe the teaching techniques of the Naguals. However, it's somewhat like "sorcery", which don Juan admitted was inadquate to describe what many here like to call "nagualism", essentially a summation of the teachings of don Juan.
In my opinion, the term is relevant since what occurs matches the prime definition of stalking. Perhaps the difference lies in the ultimate aim. In Internet stalking it's perhaps a battle of wits, or a battle, as you stated, to see who is "right", which seldom occurs. What seems primarily to occur in Internet stalking is entertainment since it's a jousting match.
The reason I believe the teaching technique may be called stalking is that the teacher is essentially in the role of the hunter. His attentions are focused on the "prey" (aka student) and what is observed are the mannerisms and habits of the "prey", not for the sake of ridicule or proving the "prey" wrong, but for the sake of suggesting the "prey" examine his beliefs and usually unconscious reflex behaviors for the sake of discovering an alternate way. Don Juan continually suggested to CC there were, as was said in Shakespeare, more things in heaven and earth than resided in his philosophy. As I said elsewhere, in my opinion, just about every teaching instance in the books reflects this technique, however, more examples could be provided if you want.