03-14-2011, 12:00 AM
Gonzo wrote:
I would agree Internet stalking is usually a war of egos, and perhaps the word is a bit too loaded to describe the teaching techniques of the Naguals. However, it's somewhat like "sorcery", which don Juan admitted was inadquate to describe what many here like to call "nagualism", essentially a summation of the teachings of don Juan.
In my opinion, the term is relevant since what occurs matches the prime definition of stalking. Perhaps the difference lies in the ultimate aim. In Internet stalking it's perhaps a battle of wits, or a battle, as you stated, to see who is "right", which seldom occurs. What seems primarily to occur in Internet stalking is entertainment since it's a jousting match.
The reason I believe the teaching technique may be called stalking is that the teacher is essentially in the role of the hunter. His attentions are focused on the "prey" (aka student) and what is observed are the mannerisms and habits of the "prey", not for the sake of ridicule or proving the "prey" wrong, but for the sake of suggesting the "prey" examine his beliefs and usually unconscious reflex behaviors for the sake of discovering an alternate way. Don Juan continually suggested to CC there were, as was said in Shakespeare, more things in heaven and earth than resided in his philosophy. As I said elsewhere, in my opinion, just about every teaching instance in the books reflects this technique, however, more examples could be provided if you want.
Then why not just call it something else, something that draws the corresponding picture in the other person's mind of what you are trying to say???
What you are describing here sounds a lot like drowning someone in order to save them. Could it be fueled by a savior complex...some latent unexpressed desire to be someone's knight in shining armor?
It also sounds like teaching pigs to fly without asking them first if they would like to learn.
If you were stalking people for their benefit, as has been said, then why are there no threads for people to post things that they would like help stalking??? If that were truly the motivation.
Likewise, your whole premise sits on an agreement that people are broken and in need of fixing...however, maybe...just maybe, people are not broken...did you ever consider that? Just because certain people may not conform to your rule about what they should be is not their fault...but the fault of your creating a rule about them.
Lastly, if seems to me that a group of you have been stalking for a great many years...how come it hasn't worked? If it was such a great technique it should have worked by now. With a success rate like that why is it even considered a worthy technique?
Still you have not drawn out how this is suppose to work in a way that all could readily get what you are saying...imho it'd be interesting to determine whether it could be or if it is just smoke that you are blowing.
I would agree Internet stalking is usually a war of egos, and perhaps the word is a bit too loaded to describe the teaching techniques of the Naguals. However, it's somewhat like "sorcery", which don Juan admitted was inadquate to describe what many here like to call "nagualism", essentially a summation of the teachings of don Juan.
In my opinion, the term is relevant since what occurs matches the prime definition of stalking. Perhaps the difference lies in the ultimate aim. In Internet stalking it's perhaps a battle of wits, or a battle, as you stated, to see who is "right", which seldom occurs. What seems primarily to occur in Internet stalking is entertainment since it's a jousting match.
The reason I believe the teaching technique may be called stalking is that the teacher is essentially in the role of the hunter. His attentions are focused on the "prey" (aka student) and what is observed are the mannerisms and habits of the "prey", not for the sake of ridicule or proving the "prey" wrong, but for the sake of suggesting the "prey" examine his beliefs and usually unconscious reflex behaviors for the sake of discovering an alternate way. Don Juan continually suggested to CC there were, as was said in Shakespeare, more things in heaven and earth than resided in his philosophy. As I said elsewhere, in my opinion, just about every teaching instance in the books reflects this technique, however, more examples could be provided if you want.
Then why not just call it something else, something that draws the corresponding picture in the other person's mind of what you are trying to say???
What you are describing here sounds a lot like drowning someone in order to save them. Could it be fueled by a savior complex...some latent unexpressed desire to be someone's knight in shining armor?
It also sounds like teaching pigs to fly without asking them first if they would like to learn.
If you were stalking people for their benefit, as has been said, then why are there no threads for people to post things that they would like help stalking??? If that were truly the motivation.
Likewise, your whole premise sits on an agreement that people are broken and in need of fixing...however, maybe...just maybe, people are not broken...did you ever consider that? Just because certain people may not conform to your rule about what they should be is not their fault...but the fault of your creating a rule about them.
Lastly, if seems to me that a group of you have been stalking for a great many years...how come it hasn't worked? If it was such a great technique it should have worked by now. With a success rate like that why is it even considered a worthy technique?
Still you have not drawn out how this is suppose to work in a way that all could readily get what you are saying...imho it'd be interesting to determine whether it could be or if it is just smoke that you are blowing.