03-24-2011, 12:02 AM
alien wrote:
Sedna wrote:
I see nothing wrong with talking to others from your heart. NL mentions maintaining a connection to spirit, other people often sense and feel that and want what I have so I share. I don't have a problem with that.
I think that there is a way to be your true self with your MIL and get through the experience. I do not think that it requires that you be an invented self. I get that you haven't found that way yet, but I suspect that your life will be much the better for it when you do.
I think what gets turned around here, and perhaps why everyone is so hard pressed to examine their actual experiences in terms of how they apply, is that members here talk like they have some authority on the subject, when it seems that everyone is struggling just as much as I am to understand what did CC really mean. The difference is, I am not pretending to know...I know I don't know.
I think whoever that person was and whatever they did, you say created false people, showed you a way to be with your MIL and that it helped you. I just think that there is a better way, one that does not require you to be fake. I think you hit on it when you stated that you stopped caring whether she liked you or not. The next question to ask yourself, is what is it that you would really like to leave her with? And I don't mean a piece of your mind, I mean in the lovingness of your heart, what is the one thing that you would like to leave her? Perhaps if you can answer that for yourself and have that answer in your mind, your next visit with your MIL might be more satisfying. While I know you make it out of there now without being hurt, my guess is that it is not a very satisfying expereince.Heh. You assume that I would WANT a "satisfying experience" with my MIL, when that is really not the case. Neither do I want an unsatisfying experience, but it's kinda like going to the dentist in some regards. We do what we have to do to get through the day, and there is really no point in upsetting someone else's apple cart. Believe me, I've tried to be "authentic" with this woman, and I have stalked the situation sufficiently to know that simply is not possible. What would I like to leave with her? Absolutely nothing. That is my detachment, based on years of observation and interaction. There is nothing anyone CAN leave with her because it is her choice to remain locked indelibly in her own belief systems and programming. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. Can't teach a pig to sing. LOL.
Now, with that said, I bear the woman no ill will - so the kindest gift I can give her is to leave her to her own illusions. It would be nothing more than self-importance on my part to try to tell her about my own beliefs or my own path. It only upsets her, in the same way trying to talk to a born-again evangelist about Buddhism will generally only bring on an episode of red-faced confrontation.
And for the record, please don't credit FW with teaching me to deal with my MIL. Gotta laugh at that one. The only thing I learned from FW was how to spot a mad tyrant at the onset.
If you know anything about stalking, you would already know that it isn't about creating false identities. My MIL knows perfectly well who I am and I make no effort to hide that. What I DO make an effort to do is to give her precisely what she wants (which is another aspect of stalking). In this case, she wants to feel she is "winning" every argument, even when those arguments are phrased in the form of a "conversation". If you've ever dealt with a master manipulator, you know what I'm talking about, so there's really not much point trying to pretend this is any sweetness and light situation. Life is what it is, and people are who they are... and the warrior who thinks s/he can change that is not only deluded, but dangerously misguided. So, the stalker learns to allow people to be who they are without feeling threatened within themselves. Carlos could go and work as a waiter without feeling demeaned by it, and I can spend time with my MIL without feeling threatened by her judgmental attitudes. By allowing her to "win", there is no conflict, no confrontation. That's simply a warrior's detachment.
Yes, I "hit it" when I said I don't care if she likes me or not. Hehheh. Ask yourself this: why SHOULD a warrior care if s/he is liked or not? Jumping through hoops trying to get someone to like you would be the ultimate exercise in self-importance. I don't go out of my way to make her dislike me. I simply don't care - and that is a hard state to attain. Not callous, just indifferent.
This is one reason I've always maintained that nagualism is a SYSTEM of knowledge. It has to work together within itself or it doesn't work at all. We learn to stop the world, lose self-importance, become detached, stalk ourselves, and so on... all as a whole unit of knowledge. Leave out any of those elements, and the system loses effectiveness. In the big picture, nagualism isn't a "nice" path of new age sweetness and light wherein we all join hands and sing Cumbaya. It is a solitary journey requiring the evolution of the Self into the totality of the double - and it won't be done by giving a fig what others think. That may sound harsh, but that isn't my intent. It's simply what is.
Most people want just to be heard, understood, and cared about. True, I assume your MIL is no different. What you call winning every argument may just be her wanting so desperately to be heard. Why does she want you to hear her? Why is it so important to her? Again, I assume, because she cares about you. How much more lovely things would be if they could just say that.
I said what I said because you described the other person doing it and then described yourself doing it. You may think it is different in your own mind, but I read what I read and it is the same to me. You create a false persona and act fake with her. That reads as unauthentic or, in other words, an invented self. All I am saying is that there is a way to be with her, be authentic, and still have an "adequate" time. What does the MIL's child want? How does that person wish things would go?
Being authentic does not necessarily mean trying to change her or tell her all your beliefs. Maybe you don't understand what I am suggesting here?
Sedna wrote:
I see nothing wrong with talking to others from your heart. NL mentions maintaining a connection to spirit, other people often sense and feel that and want what I have so I share. I don't have a problem with that.
I think that there is a way to be your true self with your MIL and get through the experience. I do not think that it requires that you be an invented self. I get that you haven't found that way yet, but I suspect that your life will be much the better for it when you do.
I think what gets turned around here, and perhaps why everyone is so hard pressed to examine their actual experiences in terms of how they apply, is that members here talk like they have some authority on the subject, when it seems that everyone is struggling just as much as I am to understand what did CC really mean. The difference is, I am not pretending to know...I know I don't know.
I think whoever that person was and whatever they did, you say created false people, showed you a way to be with your MIL and that it helped you. I just think that there is a better way, one that does not require you to be fake. I think you hit on it when you stated that you stopped caring whether she liked you or not. The next question to ask yourself, is what is it that you would really like to leave her with? And I don't mean a piece of your mind, I mean in the lovingness of your heart, what is the one thing that you would like to leave her? Perhaps if you can answer that for yourself and have that answer in your mind, your next visit with your MIL might be more satisfying. While I know you make it out of there now without being hurt, my guess is that it is not a very satisfying expereince.Heh. You assume that I would WANT a "satisfying experience" with my MIL, when that is really not the case. Neither do I want an unsatisfying experience, but it's kinda like going to the dentist in some regards. We do what we have to do to get through the day, and there is really no point in upsetting someone else's apple cart. Believe me, I've tried to be "authentic" with this woman, and I have stalked the situation sufficiently to know that simply is not possible. What would I like to leave with her? Absolutely nothing. That is my detachment, based on years of observation and interaction. There is nothing anyone CAN leave with her because it is her choice to remain locked indelibly in her own belief systems and programming. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. Can't teach a pig to sing. LOL.
Now, with that said, I bear the woman no ill will - so the kindest gift I can give her is to leave her to her own illusions. It would be nothing more than self-importance on my part to try to tell her about my own beliefs or my own path. It only upsets her, in the same way trying to talk to a born-again evangelist about Buddhism will generally only bring on an episode of red-faced confrontation.
And for the record, please don't credit FW with teaching me to deal with my MIL. Gotta laugh at that one. The only thing I learned from FW was how to spot a mad tyrant at the onset.
If you know anything about stalking, you would already know that it isn't about creating false identities. My MIL knows perfectly well who I am and I make no effort to hide that. What I DO make an effort to do is to give her precisely what she wants (which is another aspect of stalking). In this case, she wants to feel she is "winning" every argument, even when those arguments are phrased in the form of a "conversation". If you've ever dealt with a master manipulator, you know what I'm talking about, so there's really not much point trying to pretend this is any sweetness and light situation. Life is what it is, and people are who they are... and the warrior who thinks s/he can change that is not only deluded, but dangerously misguided. So, the stalker learns to allow people to be who they are without feeling threatened within themselves. Carlos could go and work as a waiter without feeling demeaned by it, and I can spend time with my MIL without feeling threatened by her judgmental attitudes. By allowing her to "win", there is no conflict, no confrontation. That's simply a warrior's detachment.
Yes, I "hit it" when I said I don't care if she likes me or not. Hehheh. Ask yourself this: why SHOULD a warrior care if s/he is liked or not? Jumping through hoops trying to get someone to like you would be the ultimate exercise in self-importance. I don't go out of my way to make her dislike me. I simply don't care - and that is a hard state to attain. Not callous, just indifferent.
This is one reason I've always maintained that nagualism is a SYSTEM of knowledge. It has to work together within itself or it doesn't work at all. We learn to stop the world, lose self-importance, become detached, stalk ourselves, and so on... all as a whole unit of knowledge. Leave out any of those elements, and the system loses effectiveness. In the big picture, nagualism isn't a "nice" path of new age sweetness and light wherein we all join hands and sing Cumbaya. It is a solitary journey requiring the evolution of the Self into the totality of the double - and it won't be done by giving a fig what others think. That may sound harsh, but that isn't my intent. It's simply what is.
Most people want just to be heard, understood, and cared about. True, I assume your MIL is no different. What you call winning every argument may just be her wanting so desperately to be heard. Why does she want you to hear her? Why is it so important to her? Again, I assume, because she cares about you. How much more lovely things would be if they could just say that.
I said what I said because you described the other person doing it and then described yourself doing it. You may think it is different in your own mind, but I read what I read and it is the same to me. You create a false persona and act fake with her. That reads as unauthentic or, in other words, an invented self. All I am saying is that there is a way to be with her, be authentic, and still have an "adequate" time. What does the MIL's child want? How does that person wish things would go?
Being authentic does not necessarily mean trying to change her or tell her all your beliefs. Maybe you don't understand what I am suggesting here?