06-27-2011, 12:00 AM
Bob wrote:I hope this helps
Hi Bob, thanks for your reply, sure it helps. You basically gave me a recipe of what you find to be helpful. And you told me to concentrate on that upper part of my head while pulling up the sexual energy, which I have not done before. So I will try this. I have not been meditating, but I know how to sit in one position for some time (not any position though and not sure how long, never tried measuring it). I can lie down and be still, if that can be done/if that still counts (does it?), it is more comfortable. I had times when I realized that I had been in the same position during the whole night..
The 1 thought/no thought thing I will have to try, I have not been specifically focusing on not thinking while sitting in one position, just during walking or just when doing whatever. What counts as one thought? For example 'life is beautiful' is one thought but it can lead to a lot of images and memories..
I have kept myself away from meditation because I had a sort of scary experience when I first tried it. I thought it better not to mess with stuff I do not understand . Maybe you can name for me what I experienced there.. To make a long story short it was like I forgot about myself, that I am me, I was in this vast realm where I just was and was not anyone really. I'd say it was a dark place (but not dark in terms of negative). I have not had any notion of being a being with an identity and as such I have not really had any conscious drive to come back to myself from that place. When I got back to my body/back to being myself I got frightened. I was not scared while in that place, but once I came back I was, because I realized I could have just stayed there and not even known that I am not being somewhere else. Not known about being the me /myself that I have a body/life/identity here. I think it was my tonal/ego that got scared, because it was like it was not really that needed, that it could just puff out of existence. My coming back seemed almost like good luck to me at that time.. I decided meditating was dangerous . This happened maybe 8 years ago. I have tried meditating a few times since (not more than 10), just in a kind of relaxing and quieting down way. I have actually forgotten this experience for some time.
Just today I have encountered the term thymic chakra and not knowing much about chakras I went to google it to find which one it is. From the name I would have guessed it is the throat chakra, but I did not find that the throat chakra's alternative name was thymic. So I googled thymic and found out:
It is a chakra "located between the Throat and Heart chakras. Like the Base of the Throat Chakra it is an important activator of higher consciousness. " (http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Thymic.htm)
So I guess what I meant before was the Base of the Throat chakra . Sure sounds like it: "Base of Throat chakra is located at the V-like notch at the base of the neck and top of the sternum (breastbone)" (http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Ba ... hroat.html)
So just thought I would clarify that, since it presented itself to me..
Bob wrote:You go through life more calmly and less ruled by emotions and lustful thoughts etc. And you begin to experience the world in other, deeper ways. I do not have problems with lustful thoughts but recently my body gets aroused for no good reason during an activity (that is not even remotely sexual) where I need to concentrate. So it is not like I see something/someone sexy or because I am close to someone or that I think of something like that, it just comes on its own, the body feels it and I do not have thoughts or images of sexual things while it is happening, unless I decide to act on it. It is somewhat of a nuisance..
I'd like to come back to what you said here:
Bob May wrote:This suspension of judgement is very important when speaking of stopping the internal dialog. Don Juan said it was more than just a curtailing of the words. When I have experienced this "suspension of judgement " many things that we take for granted have also become suspended because they depend on that "judgement" faculty. Depth perception, hearing and the ability to understand the spoken or written language are also suspended.
Immersed in a "flood" of messages (reaffirmations become constant) and too much information to take in. Surrounded by "animals," (people making animal noises and apearing as different types of creatures.)
...
But rather than a higher plane, I think it is more like seeing what is going on behind the scenes of this world. Maybe what don Juan called a "lateral shift" of the assemblage point. I am currently thinking about language and working on writing a reply to the 'Ancient Tongues' thread and this reminded me of a part where my thoughts went while doing so.
So coming from what you just said here, would you say that if one suspends judgment then one cannot understand a language that one actually should? Cause this happened to me on more occasions - 2 that I specifically remember where no tiredness or intent to do so was involved. But I never looked at it as stopping the world. Though sure stopping of the usual AP world. In this sense it happened to me with my mother language and with a foreign language. The foreign language was the language generally spoken around me at that time, but I was was expecting to hear English.
After the initial flow of incomprehensible sound I intend to understand and I actually feel a switch/shift of sorts take place and then I understand again.
This is different than the state when we are tired and/or just stop listening to others. I actually waited to hear the sound/ waited for the person to start speaking and once he did I did not understand him . There were others talking around me just before this happened but I was not listening to them, so they were just sound in the background. The other instance was when I switched on the TV and heard gibberish for a few seconds until I switched myself to understand. In the TV case it was in my own country with my own language. I might be able to classify it as having suspended judgment / stopping the world because I might not have been expecting anything specific, whereas in the first example I must have expected a different language than what the person started to speak.
Would you say that the state when one is too tired to (or just decides one does not want to) listen and just lets language flow around without trying to make sense of it is close to stopping the world? One can just let the language flow in sound around them. Do not catch it with the intellect or whatever it is that puts words into meaning. Something similar, though different can be done with the sight, just de-focus, stop translating visual stuff into objects and things. I would call this not doing. But not doing is supposed to lead to the stopping of the world .
For me understanding language is a matter of AP. Each language has its specific AP. I will try to get into this in the 'Ancient Tongues' thread (sometime soon). So far I would say that the state of not understanding language is also a shift of AP, but to a different place, maybe it is what you say DJ called a "lateral shift" of the assemblage point. Not sure how to imagine it, but understand the world lateral to mean sideways. I would say it is a shift to a position that is further from the usual.
Hi Bob, thanks for your reply, sure it helps. You basically gave me a recipe of what you find to be helpful. And you told me to concentrate on that upper part of my head while pulling up the sexual energy, which I have not done before. So I will try this. I have not been meditating, but I know how to sit in one position for some time (not any position though and not sure how long, never tried measuring it). I can lie down and be still, if that can be done/if that still counts (does it?), it is more comfortable. I had times when I realized that I had been in the same position during the whole night..
The 1 thought/no thought thing I will have to try, I have not been specifically focusing on not thinking while sitting in one position, just during walking or just when doing whatever. What counts as one thought? For example 'life is beautiful' is one thought but it can lead to a lot of images and memories..
I have kept myself away from meditation because I had a sort of scary experience when I first tried it. I thought it better not to mess with stuff I do not understand . Maybe you can name for me what I experienced there.. To make a long story short it was like I forgot about myself, that I am me, I was in this vast realm where I just was and was not anyone really. I'd say it was a dark place (but not dark in terms of negative). I have not had any notion of being a being with an identity and as such I have not really had any conscious drive to come back to myself from that place. When I got back to my body/back to being myself I got frightened. I was not scared while in that place, but once I came back I was, because I realized I could have just stayed there and not even known that I am not being somewhere else. Not known about being the me /myself that I have a body/life/identity here. I think it was my tonal/ego that got scared, because it was like it was not really that needed, that it could just puff out of existence. My coming back seemed almost like good luck to me at that time.. I decided meditating was dangerous . This happened maybe 8 years ago. I have tried meditating a few times since (not more than 10), just in a kind of relaxing and quieting down way. I have actually forgotten this experience for some time.
Just today I have encountered the term thymic chakra and not knowing much about chakras I went to google it to find which one it is. From the name I would have guessed it is the throat chakra, but I did not find that the throat chakra's alternative name was thymic. So I googled thymic and found out:
It is a chakra "located between the Throat and Heart chakras. Like the Base of the Throat Chakra it is an important activator of higher consciousness. " (http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Thymic.htm)
So I guess what I meant before was the Base of the Throat chakra . Sure sounds like it: "Base of Throat chakra is located at the V-like notch at the base of the neck and top of the sternum (breastbone)" (http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Ba ... hroat.html)
So just thought I would clarify that, since it presented itself to me..
Bob wrote:You go through life more calmly and less ruled by emotions and lustful thoughts etc. And you begin to experience the world in other, deeper ways. I do not have problems with lustful thoughts but recently my body gets aroused for no good reason during an activity (that is not even remotely sexual) where I need to concentrate. So it is not like I see something/someone sexy or because I am close to someone or that I think of something like that, it just comes on its own, the body feels it and I do not have thoughts or images of sexual things while it is happening, unless I decide to act on it. It is somewhat of a nuisance..
I'd like to come back to what you said here:
Bob May wrote:This suspension of judgement is very important when speaking of stopping the internal dialog. Don Juan said it was more than just a curtailing of the words. When I have experienced this "suspension of judgement " many things that we take for granted have also become suspended because they depend on that "judgement" faculty. Depth perception, hearing and the ability to understand the spoken or written language are also suspended.
Immersed in a "flood" of messages (reaffirmations become constant) and too much information to take in. Surrounded by "animals," (people making animal noises and apearing as different types of creatures.)
...
But rather than a higher plane, I think it is more like seeing what is going on behind the scenes of this world. Maybe what don Juan called a "lateral shift" of the assemblage point. I am currently thinking about language and working on writing a reply to the 'Ancient Tongues' thread and this reminded me of a part where my thoughts went while doing so.
So coming from what you just said here, would you say that if one suspends judgment then one cannot understand a language that one actually should? Cause this happened to me on more occasions - 2 that I specifically remember where no tiredness or intent to do so was involved. But I never looked at it as stopping the world. Though sure stopping of the usual AP world. In this sense it happened to me with my mother language and with a foreign language. The foreign language was the language generally spoken around me at that time, but I was was expecting to hear English.
After the initial flow of incomprehensible sound I intend to understand and I actually feel a switch/shift of sorts take place and then I understand again.
This is different than the state when we are tired and/or just stop listening to others. I actually waited to hear the sound/ waited for the person to start speaking and once he did I did not understand him . There were others talking around me just before this happened but I was not listening to them, so they were just sound in the background. The other instance was when I switched on the TV and heard gibberish for a few seconds until I switched myself to understand. In the TV case it was in my own country with my own language. I might be able to classify it as having suspended judgment / stopping the world because I might not have been expecting anything specific, whereas in the first example I must have expected a different language than what the person started to speak.
Would you say that the state when one is too tired to (or just decides one does not want to) listen and just lets language flow around without trying to make sense of it is close to stopping the world? One can just let the language flow in sound around them. Do not catch it with the intellect or whatever it is that puts words into meaning. Something similar, though different can be done with the sight, just de-focus, stop translating visual stuff into objects and things. I would call this not doing. But not doing is supposed to lead to the stopping of the world .
For me understanding language is a matter of AP. Each language has its specific AP. I will try to get into this in the 'Ancient Tongues' thread (sometime soon). So far I would say that the state of not understanding language is also a shift of AP, but to a different place, maybe it is what you say DJ called a "lateral shift" of the assemblage point. Not sure how to imagine it, but understand the world lateral to mean sideways. I would say it is a shift to a position that is further from the usual.