06-28-2011, 12:00 AM
watergaze wrote:
Bob May wrote:
After some practice you can move your awareness or consciousness to various places in and around the body. This awareness as I understand it is Me. So, basically I am there. From "there" I can pull the energy up. Or circulate the energy around my body which I am not too good at.So if I am Me consciousness at the top of my head I pull the sexual energy towards me (which is different than focusing on the place where the sexual energy is and try go up with it). Interesting is for me to note from where I have been moving the sexual energy, or up to where it was able to go..
Yes, you are there and from there you can pull up and then stay there watching/feeling the energy rise. Or you can be there and reach up and pull down power or reach up and rise by desire/devotion.
To put you consciousness on the lower centers just activates them rather than sublimating anything. What motivates you and what do you want to experience of this life? Most people do their thinking and sensing the world from somewhere below the solar plexus.
Bob wrote:
It is good to not open one chakra more than others. It is also good to open the higher ones, (heart, throat, brow and crown,) rather than the lower (solar plexus area and sexual organ area.I suppose I have had more the lower centers open (at least before if not now), I remember Taisha being told that she walks funny because of some open lower centers (those talked about in balancing the double).
That is normal. A totally "Natural" man is more concerned with lower things. It is not until we begin to look for something "else" do we begin to dewvelop in other areas. Man was created to be more than natural.
Bob wrote:
My teacher used to advise against meditating lying down because it could tend to cause insomnia when you actually lie down to sleep. As far as position goes you just find a comfortable sitting position with your spine straight. You can tend to fall over after a time if you are not balanced.Noted . I usually stop with the sitting if I start to lose control of my body (that is why I like lying down more, although there is the danger that one will fall asleep)... so guess this tells me I should just find a better position, sit against a wall or something..
A chair that helps keep you sitting upright rather than slouching helps.
Bob wrote:
(circle above your Breast twice) and Amen (touch your breastbone.)
the circle is clockwise or anticlockwise, or doesn't matter?
Making the circle over toward the left (with your right hand) and under toward the right.
Bob wrote:
Connected to the Thyroid gland. Supposed to have to do with Clairaudio,.. Hearing abilities.
Ok, so here you got me . I wrote something about my strange hearing when I was writing about the languages and hearing sound and AP positions and stopping of the world. But decided it is not needed and that I might post it in some thread that goes with that topic. The info I linked on that chakra does not mention hearing abilities.. ah well. I still have that part so I am just pasting it here:
I also sometimes get into a mode of dual/double hearing. This was quite a blast when it first happened to me. I hear the sound with both ears while being aware of the sound stream that goes into each ear. So there was a duality to the sound, most of the sounds we hear are put together in our brain, as it is with eyes (while each eye sees a bit different image). So in one ear the sound comes a bit earlier or whatever, therefore it has an effect as if there were two vocals very close to each other. I was listening to music at the time and doing my stuff on comp and something was new, I found out that there is as if a repeating of the vocal (kind of like echo but not, if one knows the double whistle then it is like that. one hears 2 tones but both, they are not exactly made into one even when they are the same tone). I had not realized there was this kind of back/repeated vocal there. So I was playing it over and listening very closely. It was very nice with those other vocals in it, and I was quite taken with the fact that I did not notice before, thought it must be because of the bad comp speaker quality. Then somebody came in my room and said something. And I said something. And I was hearing all double. And there I was like !!.
Got a bit freaked out, thought what if this never stops lol. It did, lasted maybe half an hour. It happens from time to time, had it a lot of times already. Often it comes with a slight form of heightened awareness. It is hard to focus on conversation with more people when it happens. But in a room where there are people on more sides I guess it has some practical use, though I could not get a good control of it as of yet (not only has one to hear stuff one also has to sort it), cause usually I am doing other stuff and when in conversation I have to concentrate on that. I also have a slightly different space perception when this happens (but it does not mean what it says, goes on a different level). I have learned that the ears are important for mapping space. The ear is what we can use in our travels to other realms. I have just encountered this info, so cannot even say it better for myself. Most people know that in terms of the other perceptions that the eyes do a lot of things, but truly, the ears are also quite interesting .
I guess it is the auditory version of when we start seeing some object double when we do stuff with the eyes.
Some time after it had happened to me I remembered that in CC before he jumped into the abyss DJ and DG were each talking into one of his ears and his hearing was split. Felt a bit better to know it does not have to mean something is wrong with my ears .
I don't know whether the throat chakra or not. Just something I've read. I have had experiences with hearing but I've not noticed a connection there. I haven't felt that chakra much. The heart/breast I've felt and the Crown and third eye a lot. But that is the meditations that I am doing.
A lot of research into a new generation of headphones is now underway. The new generation with deal a lot more with the time lag that happens when one ear hears the sound slightly before the other and of slightly different environment. That is stereo and also stereo vision.
Our minds/brains actually are making up a third version that does not come in through our eyes or ears. It filters and interprets and creates moment by moment the world we are surrounded by.
Like I said all sorts of weird stuff happens to people like us, and we just got to learn to take it at face value and learn to live with it. How do you function when you get into a different state for a couple of weeks? Must be pretty different world perception. I am still not medically sure if all is right with my ears, did not go see a doctor. But apart from those states my hearing is just as usual. Have had a bit higher sensitivity to pressure changes while flying though, but that only lately, not right after this happened for the first time, so might not be connected.
Could be something medical or just increased sensitivity and your noticing and observing the world differently. Paying more attention.
Apart from this stereo hearing I sometimes hear things (information) when I am in the in between state before waking up. Sometimes it is like what people think in connection to me, what they want to tell me. However, even if they might mean what they say at that moment, they could still not act on it. It depends on the character of the person I guess . Just like in the normal type of talk.. when someone can say they will do something and not do it in the end. I did not only hear these types of things, but I do not remember much, it is easy to forget in such a state, especially if one does not write it down immediately. And I also think it is best not to get fixated on such things..
I go through times where I hear a very soft voice as I am waking. I think it sounds like me. It is very quiet and soothing and tells me things. Explains things I am working on that I did not know. I don't always remember what it is teaching me but when I can I sit at the kitchen table for about a half hour having a cigarette and coffee and just let the ideas it brought interconnect with what I have already learned.
It is an entirely different way of thinking which takes no effort at all. Just listening.
Bob wrote:
I've had similar things. For me, I think that it was a case of the base chakra being too activated and not having pulled up the enegy sufficiently. It got to the point for a time when every time I even thought about the Crown chakra the lower one would kick into gear automatically.
Interesting. So when this happened you just pulled it up and it was fine again? How does it happen that a chakra is too activated? (if you know..)
If I am walking around sexually aroused for no reason whatsoever it is too activated. lol. Same with if I am angry. Once it was very difficult to stop. It took some time.
But normally it helps to feel the heart chakra and inhale deeply while trying to pull up to crown. The heart or breast almost acts as a kind of fuel it seems to accomplish this. So does inhaling deeply.
Bob wrote:
All I am saying is that from my experience, the meaning of language falling away seems to be a signal of sorts that a person is crossing a specific barrier or veil.
The confusion of language at the tower of Babel was a significant place in human consciousness. As was the understanding of other tongues at Pentecost.
Interesting, again. I know the story of Babel, it is one of the most famous ones, so even I know it. Wasn't it presented as a bad thing in the Bible though? People building the tower to get to god, but the tower was blown down and they stopped understanding each other. With the interpretation put on it that it was a sort of punishment and preventing them to cooperate in such a way in the future.
The way you present it here it is truly organic with a state of consciousness and as such could be seen as a valid and good step on the stairway leading upwards where one wishes to climb. Then the element of punishment is off, but how about the striking down of the tower? how does that fit in? Is it like a sudden change in the perception of the person?
It relates to probably the greatest revelation in scriptures as far as I am concerned. We are either under the law or under grace. One (under the law) is accomplished by our own efforts. The work of our hands, the sweat of our brows etc. It is all through the bible. It will only get us so far.
The other, (grace,) is a gift and things come effortlessly as I described above concerning the voice. To acknowledge an intelligent Creator above all who is in control and has our best interests at heart.
To go from one mentality, the law mentality to the grace mentality is the toppling of the tower. The confusion of languages is that people who cannot accept the grace idea cannot understand what you are saying even if you explain it to them.
The Lighning Struck Tower sits on the path that crosses the Middle Pillar. It is a veil that needs to be gone through. It is a complete change in the structure or pattern of how we think. The idea of everything takes effort and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction must give way to the realization that everything is a gift.
The bolt from God that destroys our old structures and ideas is a gift. Not a punishment. It is enlightenment. It could apply loosely to stopping the world I suppose but it is a higher experience because it opens the way to higher planes of knowing.
The triangle of Hod Netsach and Yesod is the "Magical Triangle" and would have to do with The way of the occultist and natural magic etc. Above that would be the way of the mystical.
That the world comes tumbling down kind of? Reference to stopping the world? Or what you say at the end of your post that a lateral shift is not a higher plane of experience? "Not a goal in itself except to show us that there is more to existence than we first thought. From there we can compare and know that neither the world of sorcerers or ordinary men is where we belong or where we came from."
I do not know the Pentecost story of understanding other tongues, so I googled . It connects to what Kaomea was mentioning in the 'Ancient Tongues' thread. Sigh . So would you say that first comes the Babel experience and then the Pentecost one? Or it does not matter what order they come in? Is it just a collection of APs one should have? How do you look at these experiences?
What would be the Pentecost experience? I read on wiki that each man could understand the apostles in their own language. Well, I know about 'the language of the soul' and one could say that all understand it, if they listen.. because the soul of each person understands it.
Bob wrote:
I think much of what don Juan called AP shifts happens because of feeling. Some people dance, some sing to bring on another state of mind. Maybe you do it by swithching languages and feeling with them. My teacher used to say, "To have an experience once it is just an experience. To have it twice, you have mastered it."
He also said to repeat an experience, you remember the feeling.
Yes, Feeling is crucial. I use feeling to get to the AP position. So one could say we have something like a feeling map. In dreaming if I have the feeling it serves me as a key to get to where I was. I actually use some scenes or even objects as keys, but it started off as pure feelings, the objects/scenes just help me keep/store them better. I can enter a dream I had a long time ago, if I have the key. This goes for waking life as well. I have to be quite careful because I can even bring back symptoms from an illness from my past if I go to the feeling that I had from it at that time (I move to the AP of the illness and I have the illness). So, if one has a key from real life to a past situation/memory it works the same. And vice versa, if one moves the AP to the place where one was before one remembers those memories. This I see often in dreams, I get somewhere and remember my other dreams. Or sometimes while recounting a dream I remember even parts of that dream or a connected dream that I had previously forgotten and have not noted in my dream journal.
The thing with people is that they only have a set of feelings that they use, therefore their feeling map is very rigid and limited. What people like us do is that we expand our feeling map by which I am basically saying we expand out range of AP positions.
Yes I can do it with language, but it is not my forte, so to speak. Although, it did help me have special experiences, hm. I know more languages and therefore I know that each have their own feeling, way of looking at the world and that even I am slightly different when in a different language mode/state. Here I am already crossing to what I was planning to say in the other thread. In my language we have a saying (translates a bit strangely but I will do it word for word anyway): "How many languages you know that many times you are a person." For sorcerers that would be translated into: From that many AP positions you can experience the world .
I do not know if twice is all it takes to master something though . Guess I am a bit lame . For example I have not mastered my double hearing and I have had it already many times.
Bob wrote:
I may not be understanding exactly what don Juan meant by a lateral shift but it has come to mean to me that it is not a "higher plane" experience, but what lies just beyond our five senses. A frightening chaotic world (maybe the sorcerer's description). Not a goal in itself except to show us that there is more to existence than we first thought.
From there we can compare and know that neither the world of sorcerers or ordinary men is where we belong or where we came from.
So you would say that this stopping of language is just so that we realize that it is possible to experience the world in a different way? Do we have to stop the world just to realize that we do not belong into this world or the stopped world? This is a somewhat confusing thought if I write it.. Because where then do we belong.. How do we find this in between of things to pass through? It is like one feels something there, the edges..
Bob May wrote:
After some practice you can move your awareness or consciousness to various places in and around the body. This awareness as I understand it is Me. So, basically I am there. From "there" I can pull the energy up. Or circulate the energy around my body which I am not too good at.So if I am Me consciousness at the top of my head I pull the sexual energy towards me (which is different than focusing on the place where the sexual energy is and try go up with it). Interesting is for me to note from where I have been moving the sexual energy, or up to where it was able to go..
Yes, you are there and from there you can pull up and then stay there watching/feeling the energy rise. Or you can be there and reach up and pull down power or reach up and rise by desire/devotion.
To put you consciousness on the lower centers just activates them rather than sublimating anything. What motivates you and what do you want to experience of this life? Most people do their thinking and sensing the world from somewhere below the solar plexus.
Bob wrote:
It is good to not open one chakra more than others. It is also good to open the higher ones, (heart, throat, brow and crown,) rather than the lower (solar plexus area and sexual organ area.I suppose I have had more the lower centers open (at least before if not now), I remember Taisha being told that she walks funny because of some open lower centers (those talked about in balancing the double).
That is normal. A totally "Natural" man is more concerned with lower things. It is not until we begin to look for something "else" do we begin to dewvelop in other areas. Man was created to be more than natural.
Bob wrote:
My teacher used to advise against meditating lying down because it could tend to cause insomnia when you actually lie down to sleep. As far as position goes you just find a comfortable sitting position with your spine straight. You can tend to fall over after a time if you are not balanced.Noted . I usually stop with the sitting if I start to lose control of my body (that is why I like lying down more, although there is the danger that one will fall asleep)... so guess this tells me I should just find a better position, sit against a wall or something..
A chair that helps keep you sitting upright rather than slouching helps.
Bob wrote:
(circle above your Breast twice) and Amen (touch your breastbone.)
the circle is clockwise or anticlockwise, or doesn't matter?
Making the circle over toward the left (with your right hand) and under toward the right.
Bob wrote:
Connected to the Thyroid gland. Supposed to have to do with Clairaudio,.. Hearing abilities.
Ok, so here you got me . I wrote something about my strange hearing when I was writing about the languages and hearing sound and AP positions and stopping of the world. But decided it is not needed and that I might post it in some thread that goes with that topic. The info I linked on that chakra does not mention hearing abilities.. ah well. I still have that part so I am just pasting it here:
I also sometimes get into a mode of dual/double hearing. This was quite a blast when it first happened to me. I hear the sound with both ears while being aware of the sound stream that goes into each ear. So there was a duality to the sound, most of the sounds we hear are put together in our brain, as it is with eyes (while each eye sees a bit different image). So in one ear the sound comes a bit earlier or whatever, therefore it has an effect as if there were two vocals very close to each other. I was listening to music at the time and doing my stuff on comp and something was new, I found out that there is as if a repeating of the vocal (kind of like echo but not, if one knows the double whistle then it is like that. one hears 2 tones but both, they are not exactly made into one even when they are the same tone). I had not realized there was this kind of back/repeated vocal there. So I was playing it over and listening very closely. It was very nice with those other vocals in it, and I was quite taken with the fact that I did not notice before, thought it must be because of the bad comp speaker quality. Then somebody came in my room and said something. And I said something. And I was hearing all double. And there I was like !!.
Got a bit freaked out, thought what if this never stops lol. It did, lasted maybe half an hour. It happens from time to time, had it a lot of times already. Often it comes with a slight form of heightened awareness. It is hard to focus on conversation with more people when it happens. But in a room where there are people on more sides I guess it has some practical use, though I could not get a good control of it as of yet (not only has one to hear stuff one also has to sort it), cause usually I am doing other stuff and when in conversation I have to concentrate on that. I also have a slightly different space perception when this happens (but it does not mean what it says, goes on a different level). I have learned that the ears are important for mapping space. The ear is what we can use in our travels to other realms. I have just encountered this info, so cannot even say it better for myself. Most people know that in terms of the other perceptions that the eyes do a lot of things, but truly, the ears are also quite interesting .
I guess it is the auditory version of when we start seeing some object double when we do stuff with the eyes.
Some time after it had happened to me I remembered that in CC before he jumped into the abyss DJ and DG were each talking into one of his ears and his hearing was split. Felt a bit better to know it does not have to mean something is wrong with my ears .
I don't know whether the throat chakra or not. Just something I've read. I have had experiences with hearing but I've not noticed a connection there. I haven't felt that chakra much. The heart/breast I've felt and the Crown and third eye a lot. But that is the meditations that I am doing.
A lot of research into a new generation of headphones is now underway. The new generation with deal a lot more with the time lag that happens when one ear hears the sound slightly before the other and of slightly different environment. That is stereo and also stereo vision.
Our minds/brains actually are making up a third version that does not come in through our eyes or ears. It filters and interprets and creates moment by moment the world we are surrounded by.
Like I said all sorts of weird stuff happens to people like us, and we just got to learn to take it at face value and learn to live with it. How do you function when you get into a different state for a couple of weeks? Must be pretty different world perception. I am still not medically sure if all is right with my ears, did not go see a doctor. But apart from those states my hearing is just as usual. Have had a bit higher sensitivity to pressure changes while flying though, but that only lately, not right after this happened for the first time, so might not be connected.
Could be something medical or just increased sensitivity and your noticing and observing the world differently. Paying more attention.
Apart from this stereo hearing I sometimes hear things (information) when I am in the in between state before waking up. Sometimes it is like what people think in connection to me, what they want to tell me. However, even if they might mean what they say at that moment, they could still not act on it. It depends on the character of the person I guess . Just like in the normal type of talk.. when someone can say they will do something and not do it in the end. I did not only hear these types of things, but I do not remember much, it is easy to forget in such a state, especially if one does not write it down immediately. And I also think it is best not to get fixated on such things..
I go through times where I hear a very soft voice as I am waking. I think it sounds like me. It is very quiet and soothing and tells me things. Explains things I am working on that I did not know. I don't always remember what it is teaching me but when I can I sit at the kitchen table for about a half hour having a cigarette and coffee and just let the ideas it brought interconnect with what I have already learned.
It is an entirely different way of thinking which takes no effort at all. Just listening.
Bob wrote:
I've had similar things. For me, I think that it was a case of the base chakra being too activated and not having pulled up the enegy sufficiently. It got to the point for a time when every time I even thought about the Crown chakra the lower one would kick into gear automatically.
Interesting. So when this happened you just pulled it up and it was fine again? How does it happen that a chakra is too activated? (if you know..)
If I am walking around sexually aroused for no reason whatsoever it is too activated. lol. Same with if I am angry. Once it was very difficult to stop. It took some time.
But normally it helps to feel the heart chakra and inhale deeply while trying to pull up to crown. The heart or breast almost acts as a kind of fuel it seems to accomplish this. So does inhaling deeply.
Bob wrote:
All I am saying is that from my experience, the meaning of language falling away seems to be a signal of sorts that a person is crossing a specific barrier or veil.
The confusion of language at the tower of Babel was a significant place in human consciousness. As was the understanding of other tongues at Pentecost.
Interesting, again. I know the story of Babel, it is one of the most famous ones, so even I know it. Wasn't it presented as a bad thing in the Bible though? People building the tower to get to god, but the tower was blown down and they stopped understanding each other. With the interpretation put on it that it was a sort of punishment and preventing them to cooperate in such a way in the future.
The way you present it here it is truly organic with a state of consciousness and as such could be seen as a valid and good step on the stairway leading upwards where one wishes to climb. Then the element of punishment is off, but how about the striking down of the tower? how does that fit in? Is it like a sudden change in the perception of the person?
It relates to probably the greatest revelation in scriptures as far as I am concerned. We are either under the law or under grace. One (under the law) is accomplished by our own efforts. The work of our hands, the sweat of our brows etc. It is all through the bible. It will only get us so far.
The other, (grace,) is a gift and things come effortlessly as I described above concerning the voice. To acknowledge an intelligent Creator above all who is in control and has our best interests at heart.
To go from one mentality, the law mentality to the grace mentality is the toppling of the tower. The confusion of languages is that people who cannot accept the grace idea cannot understand what you are saying even if you explain it to them.
The Lighning Struck Tower sits on the path that crosses the Middle Pillar. It is a veil that needs to be gone through. It is a complete change in the structure or pattern of how we think. The idea of everything takes effort and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction must give way to the realization that everything is a gift.
The bolt from God that destroys our old structures and ideas is a gift. Not a punishment. It is enlightenment. It could apply loosely to stopping the world I suppose but it is a higher experience because it opens the way to higher planes of knowing.
The triangle of Hod Netsach and Yesod is the "Magical Triangle" and would have to do with The way of the occultist and natural magic etc. Above that would be the way of the mystical.
That the world comes tumbling down kind of? Reference to stopping the world? Or what you say at the end of your post that a lateral shift is not a higher plane of experience? "Not a goal in itself except to show us that there is more to existence than we first thought. From there we can compare and know that neither the world of sorcerers or ordinary men is where we belong or where we came from."
I do not know the Pentecost story of understanding other tongues, so I googled . It connects to what Kaomea was mentioning in the 'Ancient Tongues' thread. Sigh . So would you say that first comes the Babel experience and then the Pentecost one? Or it does not matter what order they come in? Is it just a collection of APs one should have? How do you look at these experiences?
What would be the Pentecost experience? I read on wiki that each man could understand the apostles in their own language. Well, I know about 'the language of the soul' and one could say that all understand it, if they listen.. because the soul of each person understands it.
Bob wrote:
I think much of what don Juan called AP shifts happens because of feeling. Some people dance, some sing to bring on another state of mind. Maybe you do it by swithching languages and feeling with them. My teacher used to say, "To have an experience once it is just an experience. To have it twice, you have mastered it."
He also said to repeat an experience, you remember the feeling.
Yes, Feeling is crucial. I use feeling to get to the AP position. So one could say we have something like a feeling map. In dreaming if I have the feeling it serves me as a key to get to where I was. I actually use some scenes or even objects as keys, but it started off as pure feelings, the objects/scenes just help me keep/store them better. I can enter a dream I had a long time ago, if I have the key. This goes for waking life as well. I have to be quite careful because I can even bring back symptoms from an illness from my past if I go to the feeling that I had from it at that time (I move to the AP of the illness and I have the illness). So, if one has a key from real life to a past situation/memory it works the same. And vice versa, if one moves the AP to the place where one was before one remembers those memories. This I see often in dreams, I get somewhere and remember my other dreams. Or sometimes while recounting a dream I remember even parts of that dream or a connected dream that I had previously forgotten and have not noted in my dream journal.
The thing with people is that they only have a set of feelings that they use, therefore their feeling map is very rigid and limited. What people like us do is that we expand our feeling map by which I am basically saying we expand out range of AP positions.
Yes I can do it with language, but it is not my forte, so to speak. Although, it did help me have special experiences, hm. I know more languages and therefore I know that each have their own feeling, way of looking at the world and that even I am slightly different when in a different language mode/state. Here I am already crossing to what I was planning to say in the other thread. In my language we have a saying (translates a bit strangely but I will do it word for word anyway): "How many languages you know that many times you are a person." For sorcerers that would be translated into: From that many AP positions you can experience the world .
I do not know if twice is all it takes to master something though . Guess I am a bit lame . For example I have not mastered my double hearing and I have had it already many times.
Bob wrote:
I may not be understanding exactly what don Juan meant by a lateral shift but it has come to mean to me that it is not a "higher plane" experience, but what lies just beyond our five senses. A frightening chaotic world (maybe the sorcerer's description). Not a goal in itself except to show us that there is more to existence than we first thought.
From there we can compare and know that neither the world of sorcerers or ordinary men is where we belong or where we came from.
So you would say that this stopping of language is just so that we realize that it is possible to experience the world in a different way? Do we have to stop the world just to realize that we do not belong into this world or the stopped world? This is a somewhat confusing thought if I write it.. Because where then do we belong.. How do we find this in between of things to pass through? It is like one feels something there, the edges..