06-17-2005, 12:00 AM
Dreamster,
Isn't it great to respectfully agree to disagree? Our disagreements will generate more interesting reading for others.
I'm not negating the spiritual value of adopting the viewpoint of everything being inter-connected with everything else. I respectfully disagree, however, that lack of understanding is what separates us other than in a psychological manner. It is a creative principle of the universe, which allows for the relative existence of separate individuals, which produces a needful semblance of separation. So, relatively speaking, your understanding viewpoint doesnt change the fact that you and me are still unique, individual beings.
A large predator is also a being one could encounter in the woods, like a hungry Grizzly that sees you, in that moment, as the best food available. No matter how much you may feel or think that you and the bear are inter-connected, such superior outlook may still not influence the outcome of being perceived by the bear as food and eaten. Your superior understanding of the bear may, however, help you feel glad it got fed, instead of bad about being eaten
My previous point is that our predator is a real individual being. Just because it is invisible to us and its food is awareness, doesn't mean its only reality is in our psyche. Sorcery is all about there being many other objective, potentially tangible worlds complete with living entities occupying them.
From what I understand so far, I agree, however, on your point that our predator could potentially become an ally, but not while it is our master. Becoming aware of its objective existence, as another individual distinct from our own individuality, is a first step in breaking the relationship of being its slave. While it fools us into thinking its mind is our own, it can safely continue its stealthy and ruthless use of us as food.
I also have had many wise teachers and this is their teaching. I have found it to be true.
Let me be clear that the only reason I describe my relationship with J is for its interest to Sorcery. I also mention J because I dont want to represent myself as an expert who is originating this information about our predator, but rather a student who is becoming aware of such. The last thing I would want to be using J for is as a superior, irrefutable source that no one can question. The only thing that finally made Js viewpoints superior in my mind was his ability to help me start to see these things for myself. If he told me that wise teachers had told him this information, it would not have any effect on my belief in the information.
I indeed could be the one that is wrong and you could be the one that is right. But invoking superior authority and stating the degree of your own conviction does not do a thing for your case. Only details of your arguments about actual facts have any value. You seem quite capable of presenting very intelligent observations without needing these props.
In fact, I see the tactics of the predator coming out. Your parasite is very defensive about your/its self image. It would influence you to defend that self-image of being right before it would allow you to be open to the truth of its objective existence.
BTW, though its not my intention, and I'm not stating it to be so, if anything Ive said upsets you or threatens your self-image, this is a wonderful opportunity for you to ask yourself what inside you is actually causing that crisis.
Toltechie
Isn't it great to respectfully agree to disagree? Our disagreements will generate more interesting reading for others.
I'm not negating the spiritual value of adopting the viewpoint of everything being inter-connected with everything else. I respectfully disagree, however, that lack of understanding is what separates us other than in a psychological manner. It is a creative principle of the universe, which allows for the relative existence of separate individuals, which produces a needful semblance of separation. So, relatively speaking, your understanding viewpoint doesnt change the fact that you and me are still unique, individual beings.
A large predator is also a being one could encounter in the woods, like a hungry Grizzly that sees you, in that moment, as the best food available. No matter how much you may feel or think that you and the bear are inter-connected, such superior outlook may still not influence the outcome of being perceived by the bear as food and eaten. Your superior understanding of the bear may, however, help you feel glad it got fed, instead of bad about being eaten
My previous point is that our predator is a real individual being. Just because it is invisible to us and its food is awareness, doesn't mean its only reality is in our psyche. Sorcery is all about there being many other objective, potentially tangible worlds complete with living entities occupying them.
From what I understand so far, I agree, however, on your point that our predator could potentially become an ally, but not while it is our master. Becoming aware of its objective existence, as another individual distinct from our own individuality, is a first step in breaking the relationship of being its slave. While it fools us into thinking its mind is our own, it can safely continue its stealthy and ruthless use of us as food.
I also have had many wise teachers and this is their teaching. I have found it to be true.
Let me be clear that the only reason I describe my relationship with J is for its interest to Sorcery. I also mention J because I dont want to represent myself as an expert who is originating this information about our predator, but rather a student who is becoming aware of such. The last thing I would want to be using J for is as a superior, irrefutable source that no one can question. The only thing that finally made Js viewpoints superior in my mind was his ability to help me start to see these things for myself. If he told me that wise teachers had told him this information, it would not have any effect on my belief in the information.
I indeed could be the one that is wrong and you could be the one that is right. But invoking superior authority and stating the degree of your own conviction does not do a thing for your case. Only details of your arguments about actual facts have any value. You seem quite capable of presenting very intelligent observations without needing these props.
In fact, I see the tactics of the predator coming out. Your parasite is very defensive about your/its self image. It would influence you to defend that self-image of being right before it would allow you to be open to the truth of its objective existence.
BTW, though its not my intention, and I'm not stating it to be so, if anything Ive said upsets you or threatens your self-image, this is a wonderful opportunity for you to ask yourself what inside you is actually causing that crisis.
Toltechie