11-23-2005, 12:00 AM
Thank you kwestor, w, etc. You have indeed presented us with material we can learn from.
this is true of your flyer and every other flyer also so I will not coment on this
And of yours too? Youve made comment enough in acknowledging my first point.
This is not the case in this instance. I can tell you that without a cavil of doubt; I have never nor do I, want to make the flyer, nor any other being, my slave.
Not even one little cavil? Im very relieved to hear that. So in foisting your true mind on your F.I., or in completely consuming it with your own essence, youre satisfied just to be itsummaster?
furthermore, although plausible such a ploy by a flyer could not work on any person aware of the distinction between the FI and his own mind
How do you propose to be aware of the distinction between the FI and your own mind, if the mind that you believe to be yours is actually the FI's mind in the first place? You may never have been, for as long as you can recall, using, or thinking with and through your own true mind.
since to make a slave of anyone in this sense is to invade their mind (to bend their thoughts to do your will)
My humble opinion is that ones mind isnt something that can be invaded much less can it be converted into the mind of another entity. Manipulated, yes. The thoughts can indeed be lead as you have well illustrated in your cake story.
and that is the 'thinking' of a flyer and only an FI (the 5th column) would deliciously accept such an agreement.
Ok, the flyer originates such thinking. However, constantly being induced to think our FIs thoughts, we so often entertain such as if they are our own predilections. Your predator is performing an interesting maneuver. By playing the part of the one who would deliciously accept such an agreement, it is baiting you and us to form an agreement with it.
It would in effect entail my True mind's being instantly overrun once again by the Flyer
Study this last phrase carefully. It is a good example of the FIs skillful use of words to create powerful subliminal suggestions. NLP most expertly applied!
and I would not then be aware of the state of mind-freedom which accompanies my free and deliberate choice to do the experiment which I mentioned in my post.
Oryour flyer is so completely in control of you that it has you totally convinced that you are acting out of free and deliberate choice to do exactly what it wants you to do in performing your experiment and getting even cozier with it as I proposed originally.
This "could" be correct.
*Is* correct as far as I can tell.
Let me clarify:
From all of what Ive read in this post of yours, kwestor may I humbly suggest that you would really benefit from working on your *clairity*. This is where your FI really messes with you.
a) it is not baiting me to "begin" a relationship with it, since I already had* that.
I rest my case. I said it is baiting you into *considering an ongoing* relationship with it, not as you say begin one. So your argument shows how your predator is able to blur your clarifications to be meaningless. Friend, there is a high probability that you still *have* an ongoing relationship with yours.
b) The experiment was my idea, not the flyers. This I know.
Please *do* tell us more about what makes you so sure of this.
perhaps "bargaining" would be a better word than "baiting"
Soyou bought the bargain instead of taking the bait? Well, thats completely different
(though you could be damn sure it would mercilessly overrun the whole show again the instant it got the slightest chance).
Youve just made a noteworthy point. Those who are rid of their predator are never immune from being stalked by it.
c) The FI is subtle, but it is not invincibly so.
True.
If, for example, you were on the point of actually getting rid of your Flyer, you could find yourself thinking: "I have gotten rid of my flyer" and then thinking: ".. but wait, maybe that's just the flyer fooling me into thinking I've gotten rid of it so that I will remain unaware that that it is still there... Oh! that clever clever Flyer" LOL.
If your mind is revolving in such unsure circles, its a clear indication that you havent gotten rid of your flyer.
obviously there comes a point where you MUST distinguish your true mind from the FI.
That is indeed a very necessary step, but achieving such does not mean you have rid yourself of your FI.
a little story:
Your cake story is indeed an excellent example worthy our study of how the FI maneuvers. In NLP, this technique is called pacing and leading.
so it might be safer not to 'think' at all
Here is another technique for dealing with the predator. Stopping the internal dialogue.
frothing bubbling babbling 'self' debate
Why dont you reread that whole section you wrote and ask yourself who is talking?
Because accrediting the FI with 'every' thought you have would ensure that you would NEVER escape its clutches and never be able to get rid of it. Obsessive worry about every thought being due to the machinations of the FI is therefore equally dangerous. the FI would absolutely LUXURIATE in such delicious 'worry' thoughts! not to mention the huge amount of mental energy such 'thinking' would expend.
Gathering ones awareness, being vigilant and stalking ones predator is very different from worry thoughts. But you make some good points about not being obsessed with the FI and giving it all your power. We are indeed caught in a difficult struggle. If one is to prevail, one must be armed with unbending intent to be free, coupled with patience and perseverance.
- W H E W !
You said it, kwestor! Much more to comment on and out of time tonight. Ill tackle the rest soon enough.
Peace,
- Toltechie
this is true of your flyer and every other flyer also so I will not coment on this
And of yours too? Youve made comment enough in acknowledging my first point.
This is not the case in this instance. I can tell you that without a cavil of doubt; I have never nor do I, want to make the flyer, nor any other being, my slave.
Not even one little cavil? Im very relieved to hear that. So in foisting your true mind on your F.I., or in completely consuming it with your own essence, youre satisfied just to be itsummaster?
furthermore, although plausible such a ploy by a flyer could not work on any person aware of the distinction between the FI and his own mind
How do you propose to be aware of the distinction between the FI and your own mind, if the mind that you believe to be yours is actually the FI's mind in the first place? You may never have been, for as long as you can recall, using, or thinking with and through your own true mind.
since to make a slave of anyone in this sense is to invade their mind (to bend their thoughts to do your will)
My humble opinion is that ones mind isnt something that can be invaded much less can it be converted into the mind of another entity. Manipulated, yes. The thoughts can indeed be lead as you have well illustrated in your cake story.
and that is the 'thinking' of a flyer and only an FI (the 5th column) would deliciously accept such an agreement.
Ok, the flyer originates such thinking. However, constantly being induced to think our FIs thoughts, we so often entertain such as if they are our own predilections. Your predator is performing an interesting maneuver. By playing the part of the one who would deliciously accept such an agreement, it is baiting you and us to form an agreement with it.
It would in effect entail my True mind's being instantly overrun once again by the Flyer
Study this last phrase carefully. It is a good example of the FIs skillful use of words to create powerful subliminal suggestions. NLP most expertly applied!
and I would not then be aware of the state of mind-freedom which accompanies my free and deliberate choice to do the experiment which I mentioned in my post.
Oryour flyer is so completely in control of you that it has you totally convinced that you are acting out of free and deliberate choice to do exactly what it wants you to do in performing your experiment and getting even cozier with it as I proposed originally.
This "could" be correct.
*Is* correct as far as I can tell.
Let me clarify:
From all of what Ive read in this post of yours, kwestor may I humbly suggest that you would really benefit from working on your *clairity*. This is where your FI really messes with you.
a) it is not baiting me to "begin" a relationship with it, since I already had* that.
I rest my case. I said it is baiting you into *considering an ongoing* relationship with it, not as you say begin one. So your argument shows how your predator is able to blur your clarifications to be meaningless. Friend, there is a high probability that you still *have* an ongoing relationship with yours.
b) The experiment was my idea, not the flyers. This I know.
Please *do* tell us more about what makes you so sure of this.
perhaps "bargaining" would be a better word than "baiting"
Soyou bought the bargain instead of taking the bait? Well, thats completely different
(though you could be damn sure it would mercilessly overrun the whole show again the instant it got the slightest chance).
Youve just made a noteworthy point. Those who are rid of their predator are never immune from being stalked by it.
c) The FI is subtle, but it is not invincibly so.
True.
If, for example, you were on the point of actually getting rid of your Flyer, you could find yourself thinking: "I have gotten rid of my flyer" and then thinking: ".. but wait, maybe that's just the flyer fooling me into thinking I've gotten rid of it so that I will remain unaware that that it is still there... Oh! that clever clever Flyer" LOL.
If your mind is revolving in such unsure circles, its a clear indication that you havent gotten rid of your flyer.
obviously there comes a point where you MUST distinguish your true mind from the FI.
That is indeed a very necessary step, but achieving such does not mean you have rid yourself of your FI.
a little story:
Your cake story is indeed an excellent example worthy our study of how the FI maneuvers. In NLP, this technique is called pacing and leading.
so it might be safer not to 'think' at all
Here is another technique for dealing with the predator. Stopping the internal dialogue.
frothing bubbling babbling 'self' debate
Why dont you reread that whole section you wrote and ask yourself who is talking?
Because accrediting the FI with 'every' thought you have would ensure that you would NEVER escape its clutches and never be able to get rid of it. Obsessive worry about every thought being due to the machinations of the FI is therefore equally dangerous. the FI would absolutely LUXURIATE in such delicious 'worry' thoughts! not to mention the huge amount of mental energy such 'thinking' would expend.
Gathering ones awareness, being vigilant and stalking ones predator is very different from worry thoughts. But you make some good points about not being obsessed with the FI and giving it all your power. We are indeed caught in a difficult struggle. If one is to prevail, one must be armed with unbending intent to be free, coupled with patience and perseverance.
- W H E W !
You said it, kwestor! Much more to comment on and out of time tonight. Ill tackle the rest soon enough.
Peace,
- Toltechie