11-25-2005, 12:00 AM
Kwestor wrote:
"The Flyer is about as intangible as your mind; neither more nor less."
So the flyer is exactly as intangible to you as your mind? Seers perceive it energetically as an entity as real and distinct as you and me.
"we can only speak 'metaphorically' when we talk of such things because we must borrow from the language of sensory perception, which deals mainly with 'objects' in space and time."
What do you mean by such things? Its one matter to clarify the nature of energetic realities through the use of metaphor. Its entirely different to use it to pile up more ambiguities.
The Important thing about the Flyers, as far as we are concerned, is that they feed on us.i.e. they are PREDATORS and we are PREY. There is NO PLACATING them. Their Intent is to reduce your awareness to nothing. whether they eat it or just play with it is about as relevant to us as whether one is killed by enemy fire or killed by 'friendly' fire.
The important thing is the direction OF THE INTENT.
When one carefully stalks the predator, one discovers many things about their nature as well as their modus operandi. I for one would like to know exactly where the bullets are flying from and the precise intent behind such. Understanding details about our predator is highly relevant. I'm sure that they are not just some mental antithesis of our own intent to be aware, alive and free. They are beings with a will to survive and a whole compliment of tastes and tendencies, which one can deduce. They are for instance, formidable stalkers and experts at manipulating and controlling the mind.
Their INTENT is to reduce your awareness to nothing (if they actually managed the last bit you'd die)
Does a farmer intend to starve his/her milking cows until they are all dead? Neither does the predator intend to reduce our awareness to nothing until we are dead.
that is the salient point, because the intent of your true mind is just the opposite: ie to not be reduced by any amount whatsoever!
Our true mind gets obscured and consigned to lethargy through lack of use by our predator. Perhaps you might want to get your own out of mothballs before your start imagining what its intent is?
If you could see the approach of a flyer
How likely is that if your flyer is as intangible as your mind?
and were to 'pull your mind in', so to speak, like a tortoise into its shell,
The mind which you think is yours? And where/what is this tortoise shell to pull it into?
so as to not present an opportunity for it to 'invade' or enter your mind
We do not get our mind entered or invaded, physically or even metaphorically. And we already endure an alien presence, which performed the stupendous maneuver of tricking us into using its mind as our own.
the flyer can do nothing with your mind unless you are sloppy and not energetically awake over you becomes!
Speaking of sloppy and not energetically awake, it is my humble opinion that your whole imaginative scenario here is so much mental gymnastics that your predator is pacing you through, and has no real, energetic basis at all.
The ONLY important thing about the fliers is not that they are alien beings or where they came from, (who cares?)
I care! You should too if really want to get free from your predator.
the only important thing about them is that their intent is the exact opposite of ourS (namely we want to live, freedom, energy)
This simplistic notion of antithesis has already been commented on.
nOW if you intend that the battle-line move the other way, so that you can reclaim the territory that is rightfully yours - that is rightfully YOU - you move towardss freedom.
More mental gymnastics.
you cannot force it to think with your mind
No you cant, and Im inclined to conclude that you cant give it your true mind, as you originally proposed, either.
( no more than it ever forced you to think according to its predillection in the direction of ITs intent), for the act of forceing sets up the intent of opposition, but you can ALLOW it to think with your mind,
Examine this carefully. The whole surface argument going on here and elsewhere seems to be: fearing or being negatively obsessed by the predator is a mistake, which acts to empower it. While we start to run along with this basically valid premise, and try to somehow pursue its opposite, we are now being coaxed into accepting a more insidious notion: resistance is futile. And we are further being lead to the suggestion: you can ALLOW it to think with your mind. This is masterful NLP wording. Your predator is now giving us all a subliminal command to keep allowing it to think for us with the mind, which is our Foreign Installation!
convert it into more of you, allow it to see and feel the benefits of being 'human', as an act of total generosity to it.
Through controlling us for millennia, the predator has been allowed to color our perception of what it means to be human. The predator is therefore constantly being fulfilled through human behavior already by its own design of our social conditioning.
-to convert IT into more of you, to have you inside IT, to fill it with you; to have no part of it that is not filled with you (your essence?).. to have in essence - no flyer
I look forward to your response to Crocossaurios perceptive questions regarding this statement of yours.
[ This is possible because the "substance" (again we have to borrow language from everyday use) of "mind" and the "substance" out of which the Flyers are made, is the same "substance". awareness that also has/is energy]
We do indeed all share the same basic cosmic substance, but we are still distinct entities with our own individual essences. I suggest, therefore that what you propose is quite impossible to accomplish. You are treating the flyer as if it is some alienated complex of your psyche which you can just reclaim as yourself.
however If you act with less than complete generosity to it, then once again it exists, opposing your true intent with its intent; its intent that you cease to exist against your true intent for total freedom.
The message from the predator is: dont fight it or even think about it, be nice to it and even get cozy with itto the point where we cant distinguish between it and ourselves.
although in metaphor, this is as best as I can explain it. You might have a better chance of making sense of it if you try to understand it with your awareness instead of with your thoughts.
Wakeup kwestor. I sincerely hope you can move beyond mere thinking and focus your own awareness and intent on gaining a deeper understanding of yourself and your predator.
according to Don Juan, the flyers have no understanding of Discipline - they can't merge with that.
The predator is highly disciplined in its own way, and a very patient and inventive stalker. Don Juan was referring to discipline of ones thoughts and emotions to defeat the fulcrum of control the predator exploits in us. Discipline further build awareness and personal power, two important allies to aid in ones bid for freedom from predatorial influence a much different scenario than retreating from it.
and Discipline is still the way I'd recommend to get rid of them -even were it to take a life time.
This is another suggestion by the FI that we take a whole lifetime to get rid of it.
( Ive used a fair bit of energy in this reply to you, I hope you get some good out of it. this is my gift to you )
This is the first post where someone reminds me of how much theyve put into it and that it is generously given. Do you leave the price tags on presents too? I certainly hope you didnt overtax yourself beyond your capacities. A warrior should act out of impeccability and not be concerned about results. I am however moved to gratitude for not only your efforts, but everyone else who has contributed to this forum on behalf of all those who may benefit from the accumulated information. And indeed we have received a wealth of material to study and learn from out of your generous offering. I cant help speculating, however, that what is in parentheses is in reality a special message form your predator to mine
All the best,
- Toltechie
"The Flyer is about as intangible as your mind; neither more nor less."
So the flyer is exactly as intangible to you as your mind? Seers perceive it energetically as an entity as real and distinct as you and me.
"we can only speak 'metaphorically' when we talk of such things because we must borrow from the language of sensory perception, which deals mainly with 'objects' in space and time."
What do you mean by such things? Its one matter to clarify the nature of energetic realities through the use of metaphor. Its entirely different to use it to pile up more ambiguities.
The Important thing about the Flyers, as far as we are concerned, is that they feed on us.i.e. they are PREDATORS and we are PREY. There is NO PLACATING them. Their Intent is to reduce your awareness to nothing. whether they eat it or just play with it is about as relevant to us as whether one is killed by enemy fire or killed by 'friendly' fire.
The important thing is the direction OF THE INTENT.
When one carefully stalks the predator, one discovers many things about their nature as well as their modus operandi. I for one would like to know exactly where the bullets are flying from and the precise intent behind such. Understanding details about our predator is highly relevant. I'm sure that they are not just some mental antithesis of our own intent to be aware, alive and free. They are beings with a will to survive and a whole compliment of tastes and tendencies, which one can deduce. They are for instance, formidable stalkers and experts at manipulating and controlling the mind.
Their INTENT is to reduce your awareness to nothing (if they actually managed the last bit you'd die)
Does a farmer intend to starve his/her milking cows until they are all dead? Neither does the predator intend to reduce our awareness to nothing until we are dead.
that is the salient point, because the intent of your true mind is just the opposite: ie to not be reduced by any amount whatsoever!
Our true mind gets obscured and consigned to lethargy through lack of use by our predator. Perhaps you might want to get your own out of mothballs before your start imagining what its intent is?
If you could see the approach of a flyer
How likely is that if your flyer is as intangible as your mind?
and were to 'pull your mind in', so to speak, like a tortoise into its shell,
The mind which you think is yours? And where/what is this tortoise shell to pull it into?
so as to not present an opportunity for it to 'invade' or enter your mind
We do not get our mind entered or invaded, physically or even metaphorically. And we already endure an alien presence, which performed the stupendous maneuver of tricking us into using its mind as our own.
the flyer can do nothing with your mind unless you are sloppy and not energetically awake over you becomes!
Speaking of sloppy and not energetically awake, it is my humble opinion that your whole imaginative scenario here is so much mental gymnastics that your predator is pacing you through, and has no real, energetic basis at all.
The ONLY important thing about the fliers is not that they are alien beings or where they came from, (who cares?)
I care! You should too if really want to get free from your predator.
the only important thing about them is that their intent is the exact opposite of ourS (namely we want to live, freedom, energy)
This simplistic notion of antithesis has already been commented on.
nOW if you intend that the battle-line move the other way, so that you can reclaim the territory that is rightfully yours - that is rightfully YOU - you move towardss freedom.
More mental gymnastics.
you cannot force it to think with your mind
No you cant, and Im inclined to conclude that you cant give it your true mind, as you originally proposed, either.
( no more than it ever forced you to think according to its predillection in the direction of ITs intent), for the act of forceing sets up the intent of opposition, but you can ALLOW it to think with your mind,
Examine this carefully. The whole surface argument going on here and elsewhere seems to be: fearing or being negatively obsessed by the predator is a mistake, which acts to empower it. While we start to run along with this basically valid premise, and try to somehow pursue its opposite, we are now being coaxed into accepting a more insidious notion: resistance is futile. And we are further being lead to the suggestion: you can ALLOW it to think with your mind. This is masterful NLP wording. Your predator is now giving us all a subliminal command to keep allowing it to think for us with the mind, which is our Foreign Installation!
convert it into more of you, allow it to see and feel the benefits of being 'human', as an act of total generosity to it.
Through controlling us for millennia, the predator has been allowed to color our perception of what it means to be human. The predator is therefore constantly being fulfilled through human behavior already by its own design of our social conditioning.
-to convert IT into more of you, to have you inside IT, to fill it with you; to have no part of it that is not filled with you (your essence?).. to have in essence - no flyer
I look forward to your response to Crocossaurios perceptive questions regarding this statement of yours.
[ This is possible because the "substance" (again we have to borrow language from everyday use) of "mind" and the "substance" out of which the Flyers are made, is the same "substance". awareness that also has/is energy]
We do indeed all share the same basic cosmic substance, but we are still distinct entities with our own individual essences. I suggest, therefore that what you propose is quite impossible to accomplish. You are treating the flyer as if it is some alienated complex of your psyche which you can just reclaim as yourself.
however If you act with less than complete generosity to it, then once again it exists, opposing your true intent with its intent; its intent that you cease to exist against your true intent for total freedom.
The message from the predator is: dont fight it or even think about it, be nice to it and even get cozy with itto the point where we cant distinguish between it and ourselves.
although in metaphor, this is as best as I can explain it. You might have a better chance of making sense of it if you try to understand it with your awareness instead of with your thoughts.
Wakeup kwestor. I sincerely hope you can move beyond mere thinking and focus your own awareness and intent on gaining a deeper understanding of yourself and your predator.
according to Don Juan, the flyers have no understanding of Discipline - they can't merge with that.
The predator is highly disciplined in its own way, and a very patient and inventive stalker. Don Juan was referring to discipline of ones thoughts and emotions to defeat the fulcrum of control the predator exploits in us. Discipline further build awareness and personal power, two important allies to aid in ones bid for freedom from predatorial influence a much different scenario than retreating from it.
and Discipline is still the way I'd recommend to get rid of them -even were it to take a life time.
This is another suggestion by the FI that we take a whole lifetime to get rid of it.
( Ive used a fair bit of energy in this reply to you, I hope you get some good out of it. this is my gift to you )
This is the first post where someone reminds me of how much theyve put into it and that it is generously given. Do you leave the price tags on presents too? I certainly hope you didnt overtax yourself beyond your capacities. A warrior should act out of impeccability and not be concerned about results. I am however moved to gratitude for not only your efforts, but everyone else who has contributed to this forum on behalf of all those who may benefit from the accumulated information. And indeed we have received a wealth of material to study and learn from out of your generous offering. I cant help speculating, however, that what is in parentheses is in reality a special message form your predator to mine
All the best,
- Toltechie