09-15-2003, 12:00 AM
hi herba, i felt a need to say something more on this because i was concerned that recommending datura ,is putting kids out there at risk for trying daturna to become enlightened and that is dangerousl
I knew someone I loved who tried it and it was very hard on them and their family. However, they may have integrated it into a positive experience after all. The reason I am saying this is not to encourage people who havent tried it to try it, but to offer support to people who have tried it and were able to integrate the experience.
Herba, this is my opion of of coarse, but I liken datura to the myth of the sirens which the sailors encountered. It can be your undoing. I personally have not tried it and would not try it at this point, but I have a story about it that perhaps could show how powerful it is without even ingesting it. I choose not to relate this story because I am sick of writing on the internet.
Jeez, Herba, I am limited by the internet(sp) but I guess what I am trying to say is that CC tried it and it became, according to dj his ally, right? But now people are saying that he was a complete fraud. I dont see it that way. I know Wallace's book is out slamming him for being a conrrol freak..( i am paraphasing) I respect her for actually writing a book and putting forth her experience. But I respect CC for what he did. To me he laid out his ideas and now we are deabating it ...and how is he a failure? The man was in his 70's when he died and was his legacy so bad if he was saying "look at your belief systems...are they real?"....but then again, the point is....can everybody afford to do this? as is "one mans meat, is another mans poison" which is the bottom line isnt it? One may be able to go through the siren call of datura and survive but another might not. So you dont want to recommend this to anybody, Herba. There is no reaching the holy grail in this...how else can I say it?
My own experience, I was forced to have my tonal rearranged...no, not by datura. But, it was hell. What brought me together was love.....as simple as that!
Herba, I know I am not clear in explaining myself,and partly that is the limitations of the inernet and also controlled folley, but I want to make it clear that I dont think it is responsible to recommend datura to everyone especially kids that may be at risk who can not handle it! What is needed in a situation of altering your mind, is a support system so that you can integrate the experience. I believe CC was a messenger in that respect and had dj metaphorically speaking to help him put it into context.
It is funny, because when his books first came out, I felt that he was into the sorcery aspect too much. but as i grow older, I see him as a conduit for exploding belief systems and I respect that. I dont think it is about him personally, but his work. and that stands for itself. For me Wallace, has helped to dissipate the myth of the "hero" as in "he has all the answers" which is a plus. The part which bugs me is the part that i feel his achievement transcends gossip....for instance, he supposedly yelled out on hisdeath bed that he needed redemption from an act that he had done which was seen as delusional....but who among us is to say that upon dying the dreaming mind recants its memories and therefore what he was experienceing was a moment of the dreaming mind seeking to redeem itself?
I remain a fan of cc, because he initiated a process of examining belief systems.
Herba, what I am trying to say is that you cant just ofr handedly recommend datura to anybody who may think they are witchy witchy sorcerors..whatever that may mean...remember the salem witch trials? Dont you think that "the only thing we learn from history is that we dont learn at all"
I consider myself an American because i cut my teeth on Lincoln and Jefferson and if you read what they write the intent is very beautiful and lasting...if American has failed in that intent then it is up to us as citizens to bring that reality into being. Hating a president is losing energy. Hating Bush is folley He is not the problem. I belive he is trying to return the country to these ideals and is part of the process...to hate him is to lose sight of the ideals of the country....of coarse we are one, and what affects one affects all...includind hate....so he is part of the process of democracy in that respect.
I have issues with watching people and seeing that some are more susceptible to mob rule than others....this makes me feel that representative government is a better solution....some can free themselves from mob rule better than others...why, i dont know....but isnt the only chance for self government the ideal that we can rule ourselves without being swayed by the energy (for lack of a better word) than mob rule? CC addressed these issues i think, whatever his humanity led him to become is besides the point...and that is the issue, Herba.
I knew someone I loved who tried it and it was very hard on them and their family. However, they may have integrated it into a positive experience after all. The reason I am saying this is not to encourage people who havent tried it to try it, but to offer support to people who have tried it and were able to integrate the experience.
Herba, this is my opion of of coarse, but I liken datura to the myth of the sirens which the sailors encountered. It can be your undoing. I personally have not tried it and would not try it at this point, but I have a story about it that perhaps could show how powerful it is without even ingesting it. I choose not to relate this story because I am sick of writing on the internet.
Jeez, Herba, I am limited by the internet(sp) but I guess what I am trying to say is that CC tried it and it became, according to dj his ally, right? But now people are saying that he was a complete fraud. I dont see it that way. I know Wallace's book is out slamming him for being a conrrol freak..( i am paraphasing) I respect her for actually writing a book and putting forth her experience. But I respect CC for what he did. To me he laid out his ideas and now we are deabating it ...and how is he a failure? The man was in his 70's when he died and was his legacy so bad if he was saying "look at your belief systems...are they real?"....but then again, the point is....can everybody afford to do this? as is "one mans meat, is another mans poison" which is the bottom line isnt it? One may be able to go through the siren call of datura and survive but another might not. So you dont want to recommend this to anybody, Herba. There is no reaching the holy grail in this...how else can I say it?
My own experience, I was forced to have my tonal rearranged...no, not by datura. But, it was hell. What brought me together was love.....as simple as that!
Herba, I know I am not clear in explaining myself,and partly that is the limitations of the inernet and also controlled folley, but I want to make it clear that I dont think it is responsible to recommend datura to everyone especially kids that may be at risk who can not handle it! What is needed in a situation of altering your mind, is a support system so that you can integrate the experience. I believe CC was a messenger in that respect and had dj metaphorically speaking to help him put it into context.
It is funny, because when his books first came out, I felt that he was into the sorcery aspect too much. but as i grow older, I see him as a conduit for exploding belief systems and I respect that. I dont think it is about him personally, but his work. and that stands for itself. For me Wallace, has helped to dissipate the myth of the "hero" as in "he has all the answers" which is a plus. The part which bugs me is the part that i feel his achievement transcends gossip....for instance, he supposedly yelled out on hisdeath bed that he needed redemption from an act that he had done which was seen as delusional....but who among us is to say that upon dying the dreaming mind recants its memories and therefore what he was experienceing was a moment of the dreaming mind seeking to redeem itself?
I remain a fan of cc, because he initiated a process of examining belief systems.
Herba, what I am trying to say is that you cant just ofr handedly recommend datura to anybody who may think they are witchy witchy sorcerors..whatever that may mean...remember the salem witch trials? Dont you think that "the only thing we learn from history is that we dont learn at all"
I consider myself an American because i cut my teeth on Lincoln and Jefferson and if you read what they write the intent is very beautiful and lasting...if American has failed in that intent then it is up to us as citizens to bring that reality into being. Hating a president is losing energy. Hating Bush is folley He is not the problem. I belive he is trying to return the country to these ideals and is part of the process...to hate him is to lose sight of the ideals of the country....of coarse we are one, and what affects one affects all...includind hate....so he is part of the process of democracy in that respect.
I have issues with watching people and seeing that some are more susceptible to mob rule than others....this makes me feel that representative government is a better solution....some can free themselves from mob rule better than others...why, i dont know....but isnt the only chance for self government the ideal that we can rule ourselves without being swayed by the energy (for lack of a better word) than mob rule? CC addressed these issues i think, whatever his humanity led him to become is besides the point...and that is the issue, Herba.