01-14-2008, 12:00 AM
Hi Lightly,
"On one level, it's simply saying that there's a time to speak and a time to listen, and that it's not necessarily about mental quietude."
That is true, we tell our children something similar to teach them how to be socially proper.
"Do you believe the author purposely hid one idea inside another?"
It is not hidden. We are just "dull of hearing" as Jesus put it. In fact that was his mission. To give sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf and life to the dead.
This he did "symbolically" by doing it physically to some people.
The REAL mission of sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf was and is concerning Spiritual sight, hearing and life. Biblically speaking, WE are all deaf, dumb and blind and dead.
Why not simply say "Silence is a fundamental spiritual exercise"?
"Be still and know that I am God." There is one of many verses stating that.
But read it more closely and you will find that it is being very specific. It is telling us how to USE the silence.
One way I look at this verse helps me on my path. I practice silence for a period of time. Everywhere I go in my car or whenever I think of it I turn off the internal dialog. After a period of time, I find that I experience things of a spiritual nature. It may be revelations upon the Bible or I may begin to "see" things more clearly, but something of a spiritual nature happens to me.
Then, I usually have to tell people about it. People on this forum or another forum. Or some friends that I have known for years and know where I am "coming from." Or, I just have to write it down. (a form of internal dialog)
As I speak and share whatever it is, I become more grounded and less happens to me of a spiritual nature.
So, I go back and forth from silence to speaking over a matter of a few months time. Both phases are necessary and at the same time mutually exclusive. You can only do one at a time. If I did not practice silence, I would have nothing to share of a spiritual nature. If I did not share, there would be no purpose for spiritual experience. (that is beyond my own benefit)
Why do you suppose the author would want to say something so cryptically?
It is not cryptic at all. The Bible is written on many levels. For some, the obvious meaning of this verse is enough and it is a true statement which can be applied in many circumstances. "A time to speak and a time to keep silent." How about during an argument with your wife?
But for those wanting to grow in spiritual awareness, there is another meaning or "level of meaning" that at some point becomes obvious. It's not that it was written to be confusing. It is written on more than one level.
A person interested in spiritual awakening will understand that further meaning and make use of it.
"I'm not asking about IF the ideas are purposely couched within each other, I'm asking what it accomplishes to be so arcane."
We get to experience the joy of watching the Mysteries unfold. And to learn by experience how the entire Creation unfolds before us.
That is how God teaches us. By revealing the Mysteries to us one at a time. And not just in the Bible, but all around us. It may seem a small thing, but when it happens over and over again, there becomes no doubt that God is speaking to us and teaching us.
I am thinking about the story of Elijah, waiting to hear God. God was not in the wind, God was in the "Still small voice".
And that is exactly what I am talking about. Again the idea of from Death to Life. Elijah was standing in the mouth of a cave when that happened. I began to see a pattern both in scripture and elsewhere of this symbolism.
-Jesus cried "Lazarus come forth" and he walked to the door of the cave (which is what tombs were in those days)And Jesus said loose him...
-An angel stood in the door of Jeus tomb/cave and said "why seek you the living among the dead?
-Plato's cave alegory comes to mind also. When he stood at the door of the cave he saw what the others could not.
The entire Bible and idea of spiritual progression has to do with coming back to life, to waking up.
To me, that's a more purposeful allusion to mental quietude, even though it's also about the difference in what God and men think of as being important.
I agree with that, but like I said a time to speak and a time to keep silence is also alluding to using wisdom in applying the use of silence.
It indicates that the Bible will speak plainly about the subject of silence.
And it does do that too.
"The words of wise men are heard in QUIET more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools."
"It is good that a man should both hope and QUIETly wait for the salvation of the LORD."
"And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on,) but stand thou STILL a while, that I may show thee the word of God."
"Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be STILL. Selah."
"Be STILL, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth."
"MEDITATE upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all."Bob
"On one level, it's simply saying that there's a time to speak and a time to listen, and that it's not necessarily about mental quietude."
That is true, we tell our children something similar to teach them how to be socially proper.
"Do you believe the author purposely hid one idea inside another?"
It is not hidden. We are just "dull of hearing" as Jesus put it. In fact that was his mission. To give sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf and life to the dead.
This he did "symbolically" by doing it physically to some people.
The REAL mission of sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf was and is concerning Spiritual sight, hearing and life. Biblically speaking, WE are all deaf, dumb and blind and dead.
Why not simply say "Silence is a fundamental spiritual exercise"?
"Be still and know that I am God." There is one of many verses stating that.
But read it more closely and you will find that it is being very specific. It is telling us how to USE the silence.
One way I look at this verse helps me on my path. I practice silence for a period of time. Everywhere I go in my car or whenever I think of it I turn off the internal dialog. After a period of time, I find that I experience things of a spiritual nature. It may be revelations upon the Bible or I may begin to "see" things more clearly, but something of a spiritual nature happens to me.
Then, I usually have to tell people about it. People on this forum or another forum. Or some friends that I have known for years and know where I am "coming from." Or, I just have to write it down. (a form of internal dialog)
As I speak and share whatever it is, I become more grounded and less happens to me of a spiritual nature.
So, I go back and forth from silence to speaking over a matter of a few months time. Both phases are necessary and at the same time mutually exclusive. You can only do one at a time. If I did not practice silence, I would have nothing to share of a spiritual nature. If I did not share, there would be no purpose for spiritual experience. (that is beyond my own benefit)
Why do you suppose the author would want to say something so cryptically?
It is not cryptic at all. The Bible is written on many levels. For some, the obvious meaning of this verse is enough and it is a true statement which can be applied in many circumstances. "A time to speak and a time to keep silent." How about during an argument with your wife?
But for those wanting to grow in spiritual awareness, there is another meaning or "level of meaning" that at some point becomes obvious. It's not that it was written to be confusing. It is written on more than one level.
A person interested in spiritual awakening will understand that further meaning and make use of it.
"I'm not asking about IF the ideas are purposely couched within each other, I'm asking what it accomplishes to be so arcane."
We get to experience the joy of watching the Mysteries unfold. And to learn by experience how the entire Creation unfolds before us.
That is how God teaches us. By revealing the Mysteries to us one at a time. And not just in the Bible, but all around us. It may seem a small thing, but when it happens over and over again, there becomes no doubt that God is speaking to us and teaching us.
I am thinking about the story of Elijah, waiting to hear God. God was not in the wind, God was in the "Still small voice".
And that is exactly what I am talking about. Again the idea of from Death to Life. Elijah was standing in the mouth of a cave when that happened. I began to see a pattern both in scripture and elsewhere of this symbolism.
-Jesus cried "Lazarus come forth" and he walked to the door of the cave (which is what tombs were in those days)And Jesus said loose him...
-An angel stood in the door of Jeus tomb/cave and said "why seek you the living among the dead?
-Plato's cave alegory comes to mind also. When he stood at the door of the cave he saw what the others could not.
The entire Bible and idea of spiritual progression has to do with coming back to life, to waking up.
To me, that's a more purposeful allusion to mental quietude, even though it's also about the difference in what God and men think of as being important.
I agree with that, but like I said a time to speak and a time to keep silence is also alluding to using wisdom in applying the use of silence.
It indicates that the Bible will speak plainly about the subject of silence.
And it does do that too.
"The words of wise men are heard in QUIET more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools."
"It is good that a man should both hope and QUIETly wait for the salvation of the LORD."
"And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on,) but stand thou STILL a while, that I may show thee the word of God."
"Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be STILL. Selah."
"Be STILL, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth."
"MEDITATE upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all."Bob