02-21-2008, 12:00 AM
Hi Lightly,
"To worship a god may imply a hierarchy because a god is better than a man.
No hierarchy in my understanding of it. In the book of Enoch it implies that the fallen angels brought that idea with them. Creator as opposed to His creation/s is not hierarchy. And Angels as opposed to human beings is not either as I see it. We each have our place and purposes as also the deer and the squirrel etc.
Where I find the problem with hierarchy is in churchews and businesses etc.
"To worship a tree or a deer may not have that implication."
I really see no problem with giving thanks to the "Deer over-soul" or a plant or whatever for the meat gathered at the expense of a life. Just as I see nothing wrong with thanking a human being for a helping hand. But in the larger picture, what caused the deer and myself to cross paths or the person to be able to help.
"I have seen people wrestle with this concept in practice. I am reminded of the way Carlos castaneda had trouble talking to plants."
And I have had a problem with worshipping or praying out loud in a group situation which some religious groups ask or expect that it be that way. It is too much mental gymnastics involved when others are listening to something that is between myself and God. "Am I saying this in a way that is what they expect?" or "What will they think if I say this or that?"
Besides, I have had most (almost all) of my spiritual experiences while alone.
If I was Carlos, I may have had the same problem, but more because Don Juan was listening than feeling silly talking to a plant.
"Worship is a more intense activity than talking."
In my opinion that is true, but I think praying IS just talking. If we get over making this more mysterious than it is we are better off. We make more out of it than it is and there we go with the mental gymnastics again. It is nothing more than talking (internally or audibly) knowing that someone is listening. I remember the day that that simple truth hit me. I even asked the pastor in my church at the time if I could give a sermon on it. Which I did.
If God is who He is purported to be we are not at all suprising Him with how stupid we are by not wording things correctly or not following some man-made formula for approaching Him. Hell, He doesn't even need words to know what we want or whether or not we want whats ultimately good for us.
To me, prayer is just talking knowing someone is listening and worship is just feeling awe at the presence that is there. And maybe some gratitude mixed in.
Bob
"To worship a god may imply a hierarchy because a god is better than a man.
No hierarchy in my understanding of it. In the book of Enoch it implies that the fallen angels brought that idea with them. Creator as opposed to His creation/s is not hierarchy. And Angels as opposed to human beings is not either as I see it. We each have our place and purposes as also the deer and the squirrel etc.
Where I find the problem with hierarchy is in churchews and businesses etc.
"To worship a tree or a deer may not have that implication."
I really see no problem with giving thanks to the "Deer over-soul" or a plant or whatever for the meat gathered at the expense of a life. Just as I see nothing wrong with thanking a human being for a helping hand. But in the larger picture, what caused the deer and myself to cross paths or the person to be able to help.
"I have seen people wrestle with this concept in practice. I am reminded of the way Carlos castaneda had trouble talking to plants."
And I have had a problem with worshipping or praying out loud in a group situation which some religious groups ask or expect that it be that way. It is too much mental gymnastics involved when others are listening to something that is between myself and God. "Am I saying this in a way that is what they expect?" or "What will they think if I say this or that?"
Besides, I have had most (almost all) of my spiritual experiences while alone.
If I was Carlos, I may have had the same problem, but more because Don Juan was listening than feeling silly talking to a plant.
"Worship is a more intense activity than talking."
In my opinion that is true, but I think praying IS just talking. If we get over making this more mysterious than it is we are better off. We make more out of it than it is and there we go with the mental gymnastics again. It is nothing more than talking (internally or audibly) knowing that someone is listening. I remember the day that that simple truth hit me. I even asked the pastor in my church at the time if I could give a sermon on it. Which I did.
If God is who He is purported to be we are not at all suprising Him with how stupid we are by not wording things correctly or not following some man-made formula for approaching Him. Hell, He doesn't even need words to know what we want or whether or not we want whats ultimately good for us.
To me, prayer is just talking knowing someone is listening and worship is just feeling awe at the presence that is there. And maybe some gratitude mixed in.
Bob