04-03-2008, 12:00 AM
Bob May wrote:
"If I did not practice silence, I would have nothing to share of a spiritual nature. If I did not share, there would be no purpose for spiritual
experience. (that is beyond my own benefit)"
I very much like you attitude to this Bob May. People often like to keep silent about things, because that is "the proper thing to do".
Silentium aureum est. These people may not realize how (even) experience can be transmitted with words.
People often have the notion of dangerous knowledge - keeping things away because they are dangerous. Im not saying there is no such knowledge, though
personally I agree what DJ nicely described here:
Don Juan said:
"It doesn't matter what one reveals or what one keeps to oneself," he said. "Everything we do, everything we are, rests on our personal
power. If we have enough of it, one word uttered to us might be sufficient to change the course of our lives. But if we don't have enough personal power,
the most magnificent piece of wisdom can be revealed to us and that revelation won't make a damn bit of difference." (…)
"I'm going to utter perhaps the greatest piece of knowledge anyone can voice," he said. "Let me see what you can do with it.
"Do you know that at this very moment you are surrounded by eternity? And do you know that you can use that eternity, if you so desire?" (…)
"You didn't have this knowledge before," he said, smiling. "Now you do. I have revealed it to you. But it doesn't make a bit of
difference because you don't have enough personal power to utilize my revelation.
"Yet if you did have enough power, my words alone would serve as the means for you to round up the totality of yourself, and get the crucial part of it
out of the boundaries in which it is contained."
He came to my side and poked my chest with his fingers. It was a very light tap.
"These are the boundaries I'm talking about," he said. "One can get out of them. We are a feeling; an awareness encased here."
******* *******
Talking to other people, animals, plants, god… it is all a means to connect.. create a connecting link. I too agree with what you wrote here:
Bob May wrote:
"In my opinion that is true, but I think praying IS just talking. If we get over making this more mysterious than it is we are better off. We make more
out of it than it is and there we go with the mental gymnastics again. It is nothing more than talking (internally or audibly) knowing that someone is
listening. I remember the day that that simple truth hit me. I even asked the pastor in my church at the time if I could give a sermon on it. Which I did.
If God is who He is purported to be we are not at all suprising Him with how stupid we are by not wording things correctly or not following some man-made
formula for approaching Him. Hell, He doesn't even need words to know what we want or whether or not we want whats ultimately good for us."
What you write is true, but if we look at the function of talking… it is as I wrote above. One could say that it is the starting point.
How does a child learn to read? It reads out loud. That is the first stage, children do it instinctively. In the past grown men would read like that. We
evolve..
******* *******
Bob May wrote:
""When emotion and intelligence are at odds, who wins?" The answer he wanted of course was that emotion always wins out for the majority of
human beings. Which is why humanity is a stinking mess."
But to stifle emotions is to become heartless. Look at the people that are involved with so called cults. Emotionless zombies
You cannot bury or deny emotion because it is still there and will come back even stronger later. You can sublimate it.
Don juan used laughter,wonder and an appreciation for beauty to balance the awesome nature of this world.
To turn one emotion into another I believe.
It occurs to me that that may be the meaning of the Alchemists turning lead and other base metals into gold."
So how should one decide? I don't think the answer is to stop emotion. This is way too wrong. Later on Bob May speaks about how in a
meditation you can be in one place for hours without moving and also not feel emotion. If emotion is a feeling of the body... well that's ok. If we do
things we should do them with the wholeness of ourselves. Often decisions on where to go are felt like this, you know... take the road less traveled by and
make all the difference. People tend to be deaf to their body. The signals they get from it.
How should one decide? If you turn emotions like fear and terror into laughter, wonder etc, what does that do to the act of deciding?
******* *******
Bob Carr wrote:
"An interesting idea from don Juan, and maybe some others, is that Emotion or control of emotoin , is key to alternate realities.
Like this: that the recall of emotion, not just memory, is the path to 2nd attention.
The damn thing about this is that for us, it is difficult, but, for aboriginals , it was common knowledge. Thus, don Juan's criticism of the
'Rationality' of today. "
This makes sense.. hooking up to an emotion you remember when being in a certain state is the gate into to that state. This is very dangerous when
traumatic experiences are in play. That is why people tend to forget those. Either the whole event, or the emotion and only have the event as a fact in their
memory.
******* *******
Bob May wrote:
The first step in believing we are more than this "sack of meat" we live in is to distance ourselves from this "sack of meat".
Love your sack of meat
******* *******
Bob May wrote:
"My idea of a deer over-spirit comes from a certain theory I heard from my teacher. That animals, when they die, are not as humans. They do not have
"spirit" as do humans and their soul as an individual is absorbed like a drop in the sea. so whatever individuality they had ceases to be at
death."
Plants are also like this, are they not? So when you take a power plant you communicate with the over spirit of that plants race. This over spirit
changes/evolves depending on the role of the plant in the world, and also in human society, but it changes very slowly, over hundreds of years.
"If I did not practice silence, I would have nothing to share of a spiritual nature. If I did not share, there would be no purpose for spiritual
experience. (that is beyond my own benefit)"
I very much like you attitude to this Bob May. People often like to keep silent about things, because that is "the proper thing to do".
Silentium aureum est. These people may not realize how (even) experience can be transmitted with words.
People often have the notion of dangerous knowledge - keeping things away because they are dangerous. Im not saying there is no such knowledge, though
personally I agree what DJ nicely described here:
Don Juan said:
"It doesn't matter what one reveals or what one keeps to oneself," he said. "Everything we do, everything we are, rests on our personal
power. If we have enough of it, one word uttered to us might be sufficient to change the course of our lives. But if we don't have enough personal power,
the most magnificent piece of wisdom can be revealed to us and that revelation won't make a damn bit of difference." (…)
"I'm going to utter perhaps the greatest piece of knowledge anyone can voice," he said. "Let me see what you can do with it.
"Do you know that at this very moment you are surrounded by eternity? And do you know that you can use that eternity, if you so desire?" (…)
"You didn't have this knowledge before," he said, smiling. "Now you do. I have revealed it to you. But it doesn't make a bit of
difference because you don't have enough personal power to utilize my revelation.
"Yet if you did have enough power, my words alone would serve as the means for you to round up the totality of yourself, and get the crucial part of it
out of the boundaries in which it is contained."
He came to my side and poked my chest with his fingers. It was a very light tap.
"These are the boundaries I'm talking about," he said. "One can get out of them. We are a feeling; an awareness encased here."
******* *******
Talking to other people, animals, plants, god… it is all a means to connect.. create a connecting link. I too agree with what you wrote here:
Bob May wrote:
"In my opinion that is true, but I think praying IS just talking. If we get over making this more mysterious than it is we are better off. We make more
out of it than it is and there we go with the mental gymnastics again. It is nothing more than talking (internally or audibly) knowing that someone is
listening. I remember the day that that simple truth hit me. I even asked the pastor in my church at the time if I could give a sermon on it. Which I did.
If God is who He is purported to be we are not at all suprising Him with how stupid we are by not wording things correctly or not following some man-made
formula for approaching Him. Hell, He doesn't even need words to know what we want or whether or not we want whats ultimately good for us."
What you write is true, but if we look at the function of talking… it is as I wrote above. One could say that it is the starting point.
How does a child learn to read? It reads out loud. That is the first stage, children do it instinctively. In the past grown men would read like that. We
evolve..
******* *******
Bob May wrote:
""When emotion and intelligence are at odds, who wins?" The answer he wanted of course was that emotion always wins out for the majority of
human beings. Which is why humanity is a stinking mess."
But to stifle emotions is to become heartless. Look at the people that are involved with so called cults. Emotionless zombies
You cannot bury or deny emotion because it is still there and will come back even stronger later. You can sublimate it.
Don juan used laughter,wonder and an appreciation for beauty to balance the awesome nature of this world.
To turn one emotion into another I believe.
It occurs to me that that may be the meaning of the Alchemists turning lead and other base metals into gold."
So how should one decide? I don't think the answer is to stop emotion. This is way too wrong. Later on Bob May speaks about how in a
meditation you can be in one place for hours without moving and also not feel emotion. If emotion is a feeling of the body... well that's ok. If we do
things we should do them with the wholeness of ourselves. Often decisions on where to go are felt like this, you know... take the road less traveled by and
make all the difference. People tend to be deaf to their body. The signals they get from it.
How should one decide? If you turn emotions like fear and terror into laughter, wonder etc, what does that do to the act of deciding?
******* *******
Bob Carr wrote:
"An interesting idea from don Juan, and maybe some others, is that Emotion or control of emotoin , is key to alternate realities.
Like this: that the recall of emotion, not just memory, is the path to 2nd attention.
The damn thing about this is that for us, it is difficult, but, for aboriginals , it was common knowledge. Thus, don Juan's criticism of the
'Rationality' of today. "
This makes sense.. hooking up to an emotion you remember when being in a certain state is the gate into to that state. This is very dangerous when
traumatic experiences are in play. That is why people tend to forget those. Either the whole event, or the emotion and only have the event as a fact in their
memory.
******* *******
Bob May wrote:
The first step in believing we are more than this "sack of meat" we live in is to distance ourselves from this "sack of meat".
Love your sack of meat
******* *******
Bob May wrote:
"My idea of a deer over-spirit comes from a certain theory I heard from my teacher. That animals, when they die, are not as humans. They do not have
"spirit" as do humans and their soul as an individual is absorbed like a drop in the sea. so whatever individuality they had ceases to be at
death."
Plants are also like this, are they not? So when you take a power plant you communicate with the over spirit of that plants race. This over spirit
changes/evolves depending on the role of the plant in the world, and also in human society, but it changes very slowly, over hundreds of years.