06-22-2010, 12:01 AM
Gonzo wrote:I have to admit, I don't understand and doubt I ever will.
Many years ago, when I encountered Zen, I made several excerpts which are still in the front of my notebook, now with edges worn and the paper yellowing. The first one follows, and to me, personally, rings true. I cannot add to it...I cannot go beyond it. Here it is:
There is nothing in the self, so do not seek falsely; what is attained by false seeking is not real attainment. You just have nothing in your mind and no mind in things; then you will be empty and spiritual, tranquil and sublime. Any talk of beginning or end would all be self-deception. The slightest entanglement of thought is the foundation of the three mires [hell, animality, hungry ghosthood]; a momentarily aroused feeling is a hindrance for ten thousand aeons. The name 'sage' and the label 'ordinary man' are merely empty sounds; exceptional form and mean appearance are both illusions. If you want to seek them, how can you avoid trouble? Even if you despise them, they still become a great source of anxiety. In the end there is no benefit.
6 times in this text the word "you" or "your" is mentioned. The identity of "becoming" empty.
ninth octave wrote:When
the mind exists undisturbed in the way,
there is no objection to
anything in the world,
and when there is no objections to anything,
things
cease to be- in the old way.
When no discriminating attachment
arises,
the old mindd ceases to exist.
Let go of things as
separate existences and the
mind too vanishes.
Likewise when the
thinking subject vanishes
so too do the objects created by mind.
"You" is mentioned here 0 times.
"you will be empty and spiritual, tranquil and sublime." You will be
will be? What are you now if not empty right now, what were you before? What is everything? Are some things empty and some not? Why must you have nothing in your mind to be empty? Is emptiness a state among many other states? If so then it is a thing according to this logic, is it not?
Many years ago, when I encountered Zen, I made several excerpts which are still in the front of my notebook, now with edges worn and the paper yellowing. The first one follows, and to me, personally, rings true. I cannot add to it...I cannot go beyond it. Here it is:
There is nothing in the self, so do not seek falsely; what is attained by false seeking is not real attainment. You just have nothing in your mind and no mind in things; then you will be empty and spiritual, tranquil and sublime. Any talk of beginning or end would all be self-deception. The slightest entanglement of thought is the foundation of the three mires [hell, animality, hungry ghosthood]; a momentarily aroused feeling is a hindrance for ten thousand aeons. The name 'sage' and the label 'ordinary man' are merely empty sounds; exceptional form and mean appearance are both illusions. If you want to seek them, how can you avoid trouble? Even if you despise them, they still become a great source of anxiety. In the end there is no benefit.
6 times in this text the word "you" or "your" is mentioned. The identity of "becoming" empty.
ninth octave wrote:When
the mind exists undisturbed in the way,
there is no objection to
anything in the world,
and when there is no objections to anything,
things
cease to be- in the old way.
When no discriminating attachment
arises,
the old mindd ceases to exist.
Let go of things as
separate existences and the
mind too vanishes.
Likewise when the
thinking subject vanishes
so too do the objects created by mind.
"You" is mentioned here 0 times.
"you will be empty and spiritual, tranquil and sublime." You will be
will be? What are you now if not empty right now, what were you before? What is everything? Are some things empty and some not? Why must you have nothing in your mind to be empty? Is emptiness a state among many other states? If so then it is a thing according to this logic, is it not?